# 243 Ackley Improved



## Agney5 (Sep 28, 2013)

So shortly I will be starting a bolt gun build and decided to go with 243 AI. It will be on a blueprinted Remington action with a Shilen 1 in 14" stainless barrel, laminate stock, jewel trigger and Sightron Glass, undecided on base and rings yet but I have some time to get that together. I plan on shooting light and fast bullets as evident by my twist rate decision, the rifle likely wont be pushed past 500yds. I'm hoping to come up with a load either using 55gr noslers or 58 vmax obviously I want accuracy, but I'm willing to give up a little accuracy for some speed. So does anyone have any experience here? I have some data, but a lot of what is out there is incomplete and for faster twist rifles shooting heavy bullets.

Thanks for any help ahead of time for any help I get.


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## Scotty D. (Feb 23, 2012)

Great choice on the caliber & all. 

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## Agney5 (Sep 28, 2013)

Scotty D. said:


> Great choice on the caliber & all. :smile:
> 
> Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk


Thanks, it will definitely be a fun gun.


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## Varmintnv (Aug 17, 2012)

Sounds like you building my gun, well almost. Mine has a 1-10 twist so I can shoot up to 90-95 grain bullets. But I tend to shoot lighter bullets in it. I have pushed the 58gr Vmax 3900fps in fireform loads, but pressures were too high and the cases had to be scrapped. I dropped my fireform loads back to what should be 3750-3800fps and the cases are fine. I haven't shot the 58's in fireformed cases because mine is primarily a coyote rifle, and I just don' t see the 58's being good bullets for that. Too much pelt damage I'm thinking. The 70gr NBT's are NOT good choices either, unless you like 6"-8" exit holes in your coyotes! I'm looking into using heavier bullets in mine in an attempt to minimize pelt damage. If it doesn't work, I'll go back to the 58's and stick to shooting rockchucks and prairie dogs with it!

Life's too short not to hunt coyotes!!


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## Agney5 (Sep 28, 2013)

Well this will be a coyote rifle, but I'm not really concerned about pelt damage. I know I know that's terrible, but I'm often so limited on time that unless it's a gorgeous pelt I'm not messing with it. I have a lot of commercial reloads for fireformed brass, but will likely invest in some good brass for load development. On a side note I'm not opposed to 6-8" exit holes, they seem to make less death spins with big holes.

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## Agney5 (Sep 28, 2013)

Varmintnv I almost forgot the purpose of my thread. Lol How fast have you been able to push the 58's and do you have any load data to help me get started? Thanks for the help it's much appreciated.

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## Varmintnv (Aug 17, 2012)

For fire form loads I use 42.5gr of Varget behind the 58gr Vmax. For coyotes I have been using 46.5gr of R17 behind a 70gr Nosler BT. I'm pushing the 58's about 3700, but I'm pretty sure I can get 3900-4000 out of fireformed cases. But I haven't tried as of yet.

Life's too short not to hunt coyotes!!


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## straightshot (Sep 2, 2013)

Sounds like an excellent round. I may have to invest in another .243 and make it into a dog gun instead of a deer gun. Any excuse or reason to add a gun to my arrsinal is acceptable to me. My wife keeps asking me how many more guns I need and I just keep telling her 1 more. I always need just one more.


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## Hawk (Jul 4, 2012)

I can't understand why you would want to give up some accuracy for more speed ???? I am more interested in hitting what i'm shooting at and a couple hundred feet per second difference in speed dosn't make much difference to me. Hitting close to a coyote or groundhog just isn't acceptable.


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## Agney5 (Sep 28, 2013)

Hawk I don't want to give up one for the other, but if the difference is a tenth of an inch at a hundred yards or 200-300 fps I'll take the speed. At the speeds I'm looking to hit with the gun sighted in at 300yds my spread from 100-500 yds is something like 15" that makes judging distance on the fly a lot less out a variable. Like everything it's a balance.

Straightshot I know the feeling I always think I'm good until I find I need another rifle to fill another niche it's endless, but I'm not complaining. 

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## wolfkiller (Nov 20, 2015)

This is my 243 ackley , defiance action , McMillan stock, timney Calvin elite trigger , Wyatt bottom metal and clip, benchmark 1-10 carbon fiber barrel,cerakoted stainless.


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## hassell (Feb 9, 2010)

Well done.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

wolfkiller said:


> This is my 243 ackley , defiance action , McMillan stock, timney Calvin elite trigger , Wyatt bottom metal and clip, benchmark 1-10 carbon fiber barrel,cerakoted stainless.


Nice stick ! I bet it shoots well.


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## Agney5 (Sep 28, 2013)

Good looking rig, you worked up a load yet?


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## wolfkiller (Nov 20, 2015)

Not yet , I'm switching barrel out as it had flaws in carbon wrap and a warranty barrel is supposed to be coming . I'm spinning a fluted 24" 1-11 twist on right now. So hopefully have it back in a month and be working on load development .


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## wolfkiller (Nov 20, 2015)

Got my gun back last week , fire form some lapua brass than start load development. Probably gonna run 60 bergers to start , got 69 bergers as well. Picked up some nosler combined technologies 55 gr pills too, new barrel is 1-11 twist so I will let you know what works for me and will use my magnetospeed v3 chrono to prove results.


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## Antlerz22 (Apr 18, 2011)

Agney5--not trying to derail, just see that the right kind of gun guys are in this thread--so. Guys, you obviously are ahead of me in the "wildcat" as I refer to it---knowledge base. Fire-forming--I've never done--nor had to, building a gun from multiple companies and products to complete a build. That's a far dream of mine, however since I feel you are the right crowd to ask, here's my query. I have a savage semi-bull barrel, 1-9.25 twist, 26" bbl. What is the heaviest bullet you would shoot--and why, and the lightest and why? I do know heavier bullets require a faster twist to stabilize , but also that they are more accurate--like the 105gr offerings in the .243 STANDARD---which this gun is. Lastly, rather than research it, I'll ask what are the differences in the AI vs the standard version .243? And what are its strong points vs the standard? Just curious is all, I rather "hear" it from the horses mouth, than read from someone outside our world in here at PT---thanks--Ralph.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

I've never tried anything heavier than 100gr in my 243 with a 1-9.25 twist but it may shoot the 105s just fine, I just havent seen the need. I shoot 55gr Nosler BT's almost exclusively for coyotes and to my knowledge they are the lightest on the market in 6mm.


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## Antlerz22 (Apr 18, 2011)

youngdon said:


> I've never tried anything heavier than 100gr in my 243 with a 1-9.25 twist but it may shoot the 105s just fine, I just havent seen the need. I shoot 55gr Nosler BT's almost exclusively for coyotes and to my knowledge they are the lightest on the market in 6mm.


What barrel length Don, and what powder--grains you using for those 55gr noslers? Also if your using whatever "formula" there, if its in a 24" bbl would a 26" change the pressure with the same formula? Meaning I might have to lose a few grains of powder comparatively?


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## wolfkiller (Nov 20, 2015)

You can have the exact same two guns and what might be a good load in one might be hot in the other , every gun is different. Work up loads till you see pressure signs etc. Don't take someone's favourite load as gospel because you will end up in a bad situation very quickly.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

This is load data for a 243 WIN.......

It's a 22" on a Ruger KM77MKII compact. I use Nosler BT's.... 55gr (purple tip) 43.5gr of IMR-4895 loaded to 2.650 OAL. ( MAX.is..44.5) you know the routine though! These are awesome on coyotes. I've never had a pass through unless I hit the spine.


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## Agney5 (Sep 28, 2013)

I am shooting 55gr Nosler BT's as well. Mostly because I'm not a great judge of distance on the fly, so flatter shooting is more important to me than a high BC.

With your twist rate probably 100's, but most of the VLD bullets require a faster twist than your typical bullet profile. It really comes down to what you're trying to accomplish when it comes to choosing bullet weight. Like I said the higher BC bullets buck wind better and are more predictable at longer ranges, but your hold overs will be much more than the light bullets in the 500 and in range. For a coyote choice I would look at either the 55gr Nosler bt or the 70.

As far as Ackley improvements, probably the biggest advantage of all the Ackley's is more stable brass. You'll have much less stretching than most of the parent cases, you also can get a little more speed out of them. The speed increase will vary from cartridge to cartridge, and chamber specs for that matter. I have a lot of frebore in my rifle with the 55's so much so I can't reach the lands. This can make tuning more difficult depending on bullet profile, however I can load very long and with lots of frebore the normal increase of performance of around 5% I can likely reach past that. I am currently shooting the 55 grs at 4300 and I have zero pressure signs, I could likely run them up the 4400 but I am content in my current accuracy node.

As far as powders and loads I use almost exclusively Hodgdon powders from the extreme line for hunting loads (and honestly target loads to). I know load development will likely be done in fall or summer months so temp sensitivity is a concern, with the extreme line it is a lot less of a concern. There are other good powder options out there, I just prefer the Hodgdon line. Check out H4350, H414, and H4895, all are pretty popular powders for the 243, H4895 being what I'm currently using.

There are a lot of knowledgeable guys in here that have been doing this a lot longer than myself that have a lot of good information. I just have a tendency to jump into things with both feet and will obsess until I have scrounged together every piece of info I can get. Then I spend my time testing and confirming results. What I've learned through all of that is, I'm still learning everyday. If I can help with anything else just let me know, feel free to PM me as well.


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## Antlerz22 (Apr 18, 2011)

youngdon said:


> This is load data for a 243 WIN.......
> 
> It's a 22" on a Ruger KM77MKII compact. I use Nosler BT's.... 55gr (purple tip) 43.5gr of IMR-4895 loaded to 2.650 OAL. ( MAX.is..44.5) you know the routine though! These are awesome on coyotes. I've never had a pass through unless I hit the spine.


Thx Don, I'm taking it that the 55gr noslers are very frangible; that's what I am wanting considering not being able to know exactly whats behind the target in the wooded settings. Also right now I only have 2 powders on hand and not too much--just 3 lbs of IMR 4350, and 1 lb of superformance. Thinking maybe in the lighter grains going with the superformance, and anything 75grs and up use the Imr 4350. Just a thought! Im thinking of stocking up a bit on powder--one thats useable in my .270 as well as the .243. Lastly what are you chronographing that load at?



Agney5 said:


> I am shooting 55gr Nosler BT's as well. Mostly because I'm not a great judge of distance on the fly, so flatter shooting is more important to me than a high BC.
> 
> With your twist rate probably 100's, but most of the VLD bullets require a faster twist than your typical bullet profile. It really comes down to what you're trying to accomplish when it comes to choosing bullet weight. Like I said the higher BC bullets buck wind better and are more predictable at longer ranges, but your hold overs will be much more than the light bullets in the 500 and in range. For a coyote choice I would look at either the 55gr Nosler bt or the 70.
> 
> ...


I'm wondering if I too would have "too much" freebore with the shorter 55 gr noslers. Having said that, is there some formula or rule of thumb in the shorter projectile scenario, that says how far or sticking out of the brass a projectile can extend. (Given not exceeding c.o.l) that doesn't compromise bullet stability such as if (exaggerating to make my point) having a round in your pocket that it gets coaxially out of align because the projectile is out too far and got bumped etc...? And what is considered or actually the max freebore allowed or considered a concern? Sorry for the nit picking but that's me--Mr anal --LOL--- BTW I use IMR 4350, guess its close to H4350---but I have no knowledge or experience with it (H4350) to know if there are major differences or not.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Probably be a good idea to stay away from the Mr. Anal reference...people might get the wrong thoughts......lol. I'd shoot for Mr OCD.

I shot it through a friends Chrony at the range back some time ago.It hit nearly right what the book said for a 2" longer barrel. 3755 I believe it was. I honestly can't recall the Standard Deviation, but I do remember that I liked the accuracy and the speed was OK too.I doubt you have to much freebore as it is a factory gun set up for varmints. Rule of thumb i believe on bullet seating is that one third of the bullets shank should be below the case mouth for proper neck tension. The length of your magazine may be the limiter though.

If I were you I'd stock up on components if you can afford to and have a place to store them, Remember what happened the last time a Democrat moved in to the Whitehouse. And she's said that she'll go to war with the NRA.


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## Antlerz22 (Apr 18, 2011)

Good point Don, I remember when primers were practically impossible to find. Oh and vote Trump--time to get rid of professional lying politicians and cronyism associated with all the other candidates--to the detriment of the commoners--you and I.


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## wolfkiller (Nov 20, 2015)

Got 100 Lapua brass fire formed , time to start load development . Used 45.5 grains H380 with some 66 grain Bergers to form, jammed lands ten thou, puffed them out nice. 
Will be trying 55 Nolser combined technologies , 60 and 69 Berger and 70 Nosler ballistic tips.
1-11 twist on my ackley.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

I always used 8gr of unique then filled with cornmeal topped off with a wax plug to form my7-30Waters cases. the small amount of powder and corn meal worked like a charm and i could do it in the back yard living in town. Use a bit of caution as the wax and cornmeal along with a possible piece of the primers anvil will still come out at hurt you or something else velocities.


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## wolfkiller (Nov 20, 2015)

Been finally shooting my Ackley , 69 Bergers at 4000 fps, 60 Bergers at 4150 fps. Gonna run the 69 Bergers after running ballistics data.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Your standard deviation and spread are good but what type of groups are you getting.


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## wolfkiller (Nov 20, 2015)

Here's 69 Berger group , gonna play with depth and powder a bit , pretty sure she will bug hole. This is at 100 yards.









Here is at 350 yards


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

N I C E !!


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## wolfkiller (Nov 20, 2015)

Here is 60 Berger at 100 yards


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## texaspredatorhunter (Aug 14, 2014)

Yahtzee!


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## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

Wow. Very impressive!

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## Agney5 (Sep 28, 2013)

Must have a fast barrel! I'm working with some 70gr Sierra's right now using IMR 4166 and I'm not too the speeds I'm looking for yet. I'm at 44.5grs is the highest I've ran it so far and I'm in the low to mid 3700 range. I've not seen any pressure signs yet, so I may have plenty of room to go. Time will tell I haven't had time to mess with it in a couple weeks but I'll be starting again here soon.


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## wolfkiller (Nov 20, 2015)

12 twist, my groups were with IMR 4166. 69 grainers I'm at 47 grains powder.


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## wolfkiller (Nov 20, 2015)

Settled on 46.6 grains IMR 4166, CCI BR2, Lapua brass , 2.715 c.o.l. SD of 3.0 fps, shooting a little bug hole. Now time to get after some wolves with it. 1-12 twist barrel I'm running now, finished at 24". Pretty happy with speeds. Average 3928 fps.


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## Agney5 (Sep 28, 2013)

I finished a couple weeks ago and forgot to update. Settled on the Sierra BK 70gr, 46.5gr of IMR4166 the SD was 9. Average speed was 100fps slower than what you're getting, out of a 27" barrel I'm at 3830 average. It is shooting in the high. 2s but I'm done tuning till the spring when we quit hunting. I'm tempted to try the 70gr out of my personal rifle its a pretty quick barrel, I shot my loads out of the other rifle and had 200fps over his. I'll just let it be for now.


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## wolfkiller (Nov 20, 2015)

Once I shoot some dogs I will give my report on the 69 Bergers performance. Let me know how your BK perform Agney.


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## Agney5 (Sep 28, 2013)

Will do, hopefully I get it shooting some coyotes in the coming weeks. Looking forward to your Berger report.


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## wolfkiller (Nov 20, 2015)

Finally got out today with ackley, wow what a hammer on dogs. Pretty impressed to run 69 Berger at 3930 fps and not tear em up that bad. Called in first triple of the year me and buddy . I shot first two he got the third one. 








I dumped the first dog face on charging in at about 60 yards, was gonna eat my decoy.















Second dog come in from left face on about 120 yards I dumped it. 








Third dog come in from right side so I let my buddy hammer it with his custom 220 swift. 















Group pic with all dogs and me and Jesse


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Congrats wolfkiller


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## hassell (Feb 9, 2010)

Congrats. and thanks for sharing.


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## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

Very nicely done!

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## Antlerz22 (Apr 18, 2011)

That's how ya do it 3 for 3. No edumacashun fer em. Wheres that at, wish I had nice open areas to hunt yotes from, woods aren't easy to hunt by any means---not that there is either. But that's part of the fun, and that's seeing them coming in. Here POOF there they are, up close---if you haven't been spotted.


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## bobcat_trapper (Jul 13, 2017)

Hi I have a rem 700 243 [email protected] 24 inch barrel. I am shooting 70gr Berger hp. I haven't shot it much. I use my 22 250AI the most. I want to build a 6mm AI when the brass is easy to fine.


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