# Got Cartel....



## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

http://www.kpho.com/story/18684222/pcso-5-people-found-dead-inside-burned-vehicle


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## hassell (Feb 9, 2010)

Yes I was reading about it and figured as much, long as they keep knocking off each other, But when it gets close to home its another matter!!!!


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

They can whack each other all they want..I just wish they would do it on their side of the border. Any US citizens who may have been in the wrong place at the wrong tiime would have(and may be) toast (pun intended).


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## On a call (Mar 3, 2010)

Yeah too bad someone got away with it though. Must have been another car or truck in the area.

I am however surprised that the officers did not see the flames. They could have had a weiner roast.


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

Ya know..... I am not one to rant and shout irate things. But this kinda stuff...... gets me boiling. In this incident no US citizens were physically harmed. However there has been and will be occasions that they are. Not to mention folks are killing each other over something so stupid. It is time to be serious about cartels. I have said it before. Make the drugs legal. Regulate and tax them as they do with alcohol and tobacco. If you can not follow the rules, pay the price. I am not saying give up. I am saying do the smart thing. We could build quite a nice country with the tax money from the sale of narcotics. Also end a lot of needless violence. Maybe it would even help Mexico and other South American countries to have a legal industry with that kind of revenue. In the end I think Cartels would see it in their best interest to co-operate for financial and health reasons.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

At this point we don't know who the deceased were.


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

Sorry I missed that part.. My point remains the same though.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

i totally agree with your point Rick. We in Az and the other border states have an untold amount of expense from people who have no intention of living here peacefully.


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## On a call (Mar 3, 2010)

I however disagree, the leagalization of pot here in Michigan has only made it more easy for the corruption of the substance.


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

I agree Don. The decisions are being made by folks that do not have to deal with it day in and day out. The collective system fails to understand the issues at hand.

On a Call.... I agree fail that legalization comes with a new set of problems. However, through proper regulation and taxation those issues are easier taken care of. There is evidence. The Netherlands is the most recognized. They spend their resources on education, regulation, policing, and substance abuse programs. We have been treating these substances the same way since the 80's. It is not working. I say we try a system that have already been tested for us.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

On a call said:


> I however disagree, the leagalization of pot here in Michigan has only made it more easy for the corruption of the substance.


By and large these are the same people who were smoking pot prior to legalization. Yes it is easier to get and they may smoke more than before, but their money isn't going to the Pablo Escobars of the world who use their money to control, kill, maim, and abuse people and everything else. Marijuana itself is IMO less likely to make people violent, and is more of a habit than a addiction(I'm sure some will disagree, but I've yet to see it documented where anyone goes through clinical withdrawls from quitting it)

I find it hard to believe that our country has denied a proven, beneficial, drug to people who could be at ease by simply smoking weed. We give morphine to people in pain, hand out Oxycodone and other addictive pain killers and many psychotropic drugs by the bucketfulls. Yet we ( our medical society, most of whom have tried it in college) deny these ill, many times terminally, a bit of comfort because they (in their infinite wisdom....yeah right) deem it to be a scourge on society....WTH
I don't believe that every Tom(not you Bones) D!ck(or you Hortontoter) or Harry should be able to get a lifetime dope card because he or she (harriet) stubbed their frickin' toe and it hurts.

Sorry for the rant..(not really) ...I reserve the right to continue my rant at any moment.....


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## On a call (Mar 3, 2010)

I concider pot to be a gate way drug, although I know many say it is not I beleive it is.

The assesment that the government get to keep the money will not slow the comsumtion and abuse of the drug and the drug it leads to. Oxy was mentioned, I know a hand full of guys who will purchase oxy where ever they are able and with thier last dime. One used to be a close friend. 30 years ago he started smoking weed that was it...then one day hurt his back and was perscribed oxy. His back was not a long term problem...but he liked the high of oxy and will do just about anything to get it.

IMO when I see yard signs stating ....call 1-800-555-1225 for you medical card ( so you can buy and grow your marjiuana ) and grow lamps and hydropontic shops pop up like weeds in the spring. There is somthing wrong. I agree with your statement Don regarding not every Tom, *[Excuse my language.... I have a limited vocabulary]*, or Harry ( who is Harry ?







) should get a card but they are, where is the line ?

Maybe I am wrong..certainly would not be the first time. However when I see the distruction I have from drugs you begin to wonder if there is a better way.

As for the drug runners, cartels , and anyone who profits from the sale of drugs that make it to those who suffer. I am all for SSS, or better SPP.


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## bones44 (Jan 7, 2011)

Hey, quit using my name.....I've got a patent on it ! LMAO Good points and topic fella's. I've got my opinions but many days they aren't worth a hill of beans. LOL


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## On a call (Mar 3, 2010)

A buddy of mine used to say...opinions are like noses everyone has one some are pretty and some are not.

I am just glad Don was not out driving that night


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

Do you drink alcohol? Marijuana to be the same thing as Drinking alcohol. I know they are not the same thing but the amount of risk in either one is the same. I think it should be allowed for medical and recreational use. I also think other drugs should be legal. Not that I want to partake in their use. But I think that someone who wants to........ is going to........ regardless of it legality. I am not saying give up. I am saying use the proceeds from taxation on the drugs to educate and help people who do use them. Right now we do not do this on a large scale. If you want to end the supply...... end the demand.


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## prairiewolf (Feb 19, 2012)

Well I think more like Don and Rick, stop the money from going to the cartels and as for the problems with society and drugs it is almost the same problems many face with alcohol. So many people dont want to face life and its problems and will always turn to *something *to make them feel better about their life. I know this because my oldest is an alcoholic and it has ruined his life. He is trying now to overcome it but it is an up and down fight everyday.Drugs and alcohol same thing to me, people will abuse both and I wish I had the magic answer but I dont think anyone does.


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

SG I have a medicine cabinet full of prescribed pain killers that I can not take. The doctor told me to take them for my back. I have 5 bad disks that pinch the nerves. Some days I have to take ice baths to get the pain out of my legs and arms. I took one when I first got them.... I could not feel the pain in my back anymore..... I could not feel anything! LOL. It was the only time I took one. I tried smoking some pot for it. It works. Marijuana took the pain away just like the stuff the doctor gave me, but less debilitating. The problem is I don't like the way it makes me feel either (Like a Criminal); So until it is legal I refrain from using it. Back to Motrin and ice baths for me until they come up with something better.

It is not the drug that is the gateway. The mindset of someone who is going to use the drug for social use is the gateway. This does not imply that if you use marijuana that you are going to use other drugs. It does mean that statistically you are more likely to use other drugs. I have no problem with people who use any drug. I wish they would not. But I want it to be their choice.


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

Ed I am sorry to hear about your son. I hope he wins the battle against his disease for himself and his parents.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

It is not the drug that is the gateway. The mindset of someone who is going to use the drug for social use is the gateway.

+1..As a reference it's like someone who drinks beer...they are much more likely to try liquor than someone who does not drink.


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## bones44 (Jan 7, 2011)

It's such a divisive issue that I just choose to refrain from even talking about it. Lately too many things have been getting me fired up and I don't seem to know when to shut my mouth and walk away. ;-)

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

LOL I guess in the right group even the color of night becomes a divisive issue.


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

I hear ya Tom. The older I get. The more fired up I get. It is only a problem if you can't cool back down. If that is the case then don't work yourself up on our account. But I would like to hear what you have to say. I will not be offended with anyone's opinion on any issue. It is their opinion and their right to have it.


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## bones44 (Jan 7, 2011)

I've seen both sides of the coin on this issue in my life. I've losy more friends and familu to alcohol related issues than anything. Prescription drugs are the next worse thing in my book. Weed is just that, a weed Legalize it and be done with it. 
They'll.always come out with a new chemical to poison people.with no matter what. It' s divisive to me is all.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

.....Anonymous tip......


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

Former crew member?


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## Antlerz22 (Apr 18, 2011)

youngdon said:


> LOL I guess in the right group even the color of night becomes a divisive issue.


 You are white about that!


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

Stonegod said:


> you'd think so, but after 6yrs of training I decided to go a different route. We'd just came off of working 33 long days with no time/days off and he just "relaxed" a little to much. First time he ever made a mistake.....he did spend the next 3 weeks on the chop saw cutting stone....it's a hot...dusty.....hard job. But to his credit he never bitched about once.


Ahhhh..... I did not know the back story. I guess I would have gone the chop saw route too....... Not saying I would remove any body parts. LOL


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## On a call (Mar 3, 2010)

Good posts guys.

Again I say it is a gate way drug, IMO that is.

While in college I started smoking weed and so did many other kids ( wish I never would have ). I also thought if pot is like this I wonder what mushrooms would be like, LSD, qualudes ( sp ?), speed, coke and others. Pot was the starting point seemed harmless enough but I saw what it lead to for many other kids. Distruction.

Perhaps I was lucky, smart, or just not with an additictive nature ? All I know is that after trying somthing I just tended to say...I tried it some of which I liked.

I feel for you with family that are addicted, it is a distroyer for sure ! Prayers go out to you.


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

Your dating yourself with the ludes man! LOL just kiddin with ya.

Yes Eat this.... Sniff This..... Swallow these...... Smoke that...... See ya in a year weeeeeeeeeeee

I understand what your saying about pot being a gateway............ It is the gateway to pleasure town... right on man! LOL....

Ok I will quit with the jokes now. This is a good topic. Many valid points made by cooler heads.


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## bones44 (Jan 7, 2011)

Rick sounds a little too experienced. Lmao. ;-)

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2


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## On a call (Mar 3, 2010)

Yeah he must have been one of the one that made it out alive and well







, but many did not.

Most of you all know the stories or know some personally. Lost a great job, lost the house, wife, kids, ect to coke.

And now we have guys in a truck burned beyond recognition..


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

He may be alive but his being "well" is open to debate !


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## On a call (Mar 3, 2010)




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## Antlerz22 (Apr 18, 2011)

bones44 said:


> Rick sounds a little too experienced. Lmao. ;-)
> 
> Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2


 He's a Hendrix fan even!!


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

I am Ultimately Experienced! I have not kissed the sky in a long time though. Yes I kept everything..... My key still unlocks the door (my house is green), The castle is not in the sea, and the traffic downtown still sucks!


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

"well" is such a relative term LOL


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

As to the original story, I read today that the SUV burned in the desert is registered to a family of five who lives in Tempe AZ(Phoenix suburb and home of ASU) To my knowledge the bodies have not been identified.


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

Is the same link updated? I want to follow this story.


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## bones44 (Jan 7, 2011)

It's now being called a murder-suicide. A couple and their 3 kids were in it. Very sad no matter what.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2012/06/05/20120605arizona-burned-bodies-tempe-murder-suicide.html

Here is the latest.


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## prairiewolf (Feb 19, 2012)

Very sad indeed!!


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## Antlerz22 (Apr 18, 2011)

This is from the article, and if I read into it correctly--its as if she is implying they (the kids) know who their real dad is--and that then could have been what he surmised from her comment and the rest we know. Heres the statement--


Sometime on Friday evening, after Yafit Butwin celebrated her husband's birthday with the family at the couple's Tempe home, she posted a photo of him and their children on Facebook with this message: "Happy Birthday Jim, I am so proud of my three children and they know why."

Read more: http://www.azcentral...l#ixzz1x3tjF4QX​


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

I don't read it that way at all. As the article states they had already negotiated "Joint custody" of the kids...I would guess...if we are gonna play that game, that she was proud of them for the way they were dealing with the divorce.


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## hassell (Feb 9, 2010)

Either way the whole situation is so sad and it seems as if there is so much of that going on as of late across the country, the kids always seem to take the brunt of everything!!!!!!!!


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

Indeed Rick. The crappiest things in the world happen to kids.


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## bones44 (Jan 7, 2011)

It's caused far too much anymore by people living so far beyond their means that they're overloaded with stress and anger. Compound that with divorce and heartbreak. Way too much for anyone to handle let alone a regular person. It's going on everywhere. I see it in people's faces. Modern day society has created this. It's not uncommon and it's been happening all over the U.S. Heartbreaking !


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