# .223 or .22-.250



## Beef

I'm looking for a new varmint gun. Want to upgrade from my 30-30 lever. What do you guys suggest? .223 or 22-250?

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## bones44

Both ! lol I have 3 rifles chambered in .223. Used to have a 22-250. May get another. You can't go wrong with either round IMO.


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## youngdon

If you don't reload a 223 is quite a bit cheaper to shoot. A 22-250 on the other hand is a more powerful cartridge and will give you a flatter trajectory to a greater distance. 300yds is the maximum practical range for a 223 on coyotes, (which is as far or farther than most people can shoot consistantly) A 22-250 will reliably drop coyotes to 400+...if you can hit them.
Either of these choices will be a huge improvement over your 30-30. If you want a dual purpose gun (deer and yotes)look at a 243Win.


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## Scotty D.

Exactly what YD said.....+1 to the .243, too...


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## youngdon

Thanks Scotty,

If you are looking for a low recoil cartridge don't overlook the .204 Ruger either It will shoot like a laser to 300yds and has the energy to dispatch a coyote cleanly at that distance as well. And if I was going to shoot fox and chucks as well as coyotes (but nothing bigger than yotes) I'd definitly go 204. I'd definitly like to give a few chucks heck with mine.


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## bones44

Beef, if I have any firearm questions Don is the first guy I ask. He's the most knowledgeable and nicest guy you'll find on any forum. Listen to what he says to get you where you need to be.


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## youngdon

Thanks Tom....I just make it all up as I go along though... One of these days I'll sit down and make a pro's and con's list on all the cartridges I feel are apt to be used for Coyotes and varmints. Something tells me that there would not be any conclusive winners in the overall category..


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## prairiewolf

Might want to consider whether you want to save the pelts. I suggest .223 or .204, I have both and would have a hard time choosing between them.


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## sos1inmesa

bones44 said:


> Beef, if I have any firearm questions Don is the first guy I ask. He's the most knowledgeable and nicest guy you'll find on any forum. Listen to what he says to get you where you need to be.


I second that! Youngdon also knows ammo and reloading better than anyone I know.

I am absolutely blown away at the accuracy from my 22-250. I love everything about the caliber, except with the varmint rounds I'm using, I'm really doing a number on the pelts. Don recommended using a soft point to help, and if I ever get into reloading I'm sure there will be even more options.
I definitely wouldn't mind owning any of the other 3 calibers mentioned (.204, .223, and .243).


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## youngdon

Don't hesitate...Buy all three now !


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## sos1inmesa

It will happen in due time.









You've got me thinking hard about the .204 though...


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## prairiewolf

You wont be sorry if you buy a .204, most of the time no exit wound !


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## Scotty D.

I love my .204... Now my .223 & .243 sit in the safe -- all jealous & stuff...








But here's something I found out when trying out some new loads for the .223 this past weekend...I'm really getting some good results w/ the Hornady .22 cal. 35gr. NTX bullet & the velocity does rival the current load of my .204 (40gr VMax)
Haven't shot any thru the AR yet, but the NTX really shrunk the group size w/ my TC Contender pistol....


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## poe

I shoot both a 22-250 and a .223 and I like them both. Yes the 250 is prob the better choice for long range but it you know what you are doing the .223 can still be a good long range coyote round. For coyote I have found fur friendly loads for both rounds so thats no big difference for me. the .223 does cost less to shoot but really I think they are close enough that its up to you. If you dont do hardly anything past 300yards then I dont really see much need for the 22-250.


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## Rick Howard

So I read a good comparison of the .204 and 22-250. I will see if I can dig up the website and post a link. The basic point was that the .204 is just as effective at a long range and the 22-250. I Think it was due to speed loss at extended ranges with the .204 was less than the 22-250 giving you about the same punch. The bonus for the .204 is that is does less pet damage. Okay off to find that site. I will post a link as soon as I can find it.


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## oneshotcowboy

as you see this is mostly personal opinions...lol like yd said if you set down and made a list of pros and cons not a single one would be a clear winner. they all have their goods and bads. for me is the 22-250. plain and simple, i love that round. very virisital to load for, and where i hunt shots can be from point blank to 400+ yards. here in nebraska its legal for deer too along with the .223. as with any caliber, its well placed shots more than the round that makes us love what we love!!!!


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## bar-d

Yall are gonna make Don's head swell so much he is liable to have an aneurysm.


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## sos1inmesa

Oneshot,

It's amazing the trajectory for the 22-250. My main long range rifle aside from this caliber is my .308. My .308 is zeroed at 100 yards, and when at the range hitting steel targets at 300 yards, my scope adjustment is 20 clicks!!! After getting the 22-250 and doing my zero at 200 yards, it was such a pleasant surprise to shoot 100, 200, and 300 yard targets with no scope adjustment at all. Out of the 7 calibers I own, this is by far my favorite!

The .204 sounds like a good caliber to add though. When hunting, most all my shots are taken at under 200 yards.


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## Rick Howard

I can not find that comparison. Someone has or had a webpage that had a nice layout of how the .204 and 22-250 are pretty comparable with less fur damage in the .204 at closer ranges. They actual data to back their claim. I own a 22-250 and a .243 for varmint and yote hunting. I like the .243 better for coyote. As oneshotcowboy said it is mostly personal preference.


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## poe

not saying that the .223 is the best choice for long range shooting and coyote hunting but I think to many people under rate its long range ability. If you know what you are doing with the .223 it can be just as effective at long range as a 22-250. Sos gave a good example of this with the 308. Yes it may not be the best long range option but it was used as a long range calibre for a very long time. I think to many people wory to much about haveing a flat shooting rifle ( which does help to a point) and not enough about the skill of there shooting.


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## prairiewolf

I was shooting prairiedogs this weekend with my .204 set at 200 yds zero and at 400 yds all I had to do was set first mil dot on dog and he was gone.


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## oneshotcowboy

that is true poe... i have seen people do amazing things with a .22 lr. but some for some of us, what we lack in skill we can make up for in the rifle we choose...lol. actually i just enjoy the 22.250 over the .223 just because. no paticular reason. it just fits my fancy


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## drooby30

.22-250 with 40 grain at 300 yards has a muzzle velocity of 2658 and a drop of 6.1 inches

.223 with 40 grain at 300 yards has a muzzle velocity of 2265 and a drop of 8.8 inches


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## drooby30

In my opinion the .22-250 is better for the accuracy reason. It also has a higher muzzle velocity. Just an opinion though


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## youngdon

drooby30 said:


> .22-250 with 40 grain at 300 yards has a muzzle velocity of 2658 and a drop of 6.1 inches
> 
> .223 with 40 grain at 300 yards has a muzzle velocity of 2265 and a drop of 8.8 inches


Is this a typo ? I don't think he meant to type muzzle


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## fr3db3ar

You're more than likely correct Don.


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## Rick Howard

If I had to guess. I am pretty sure the Marine knows his ballistics. I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I like the 22-250 better. I want a .204 next.


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## poe

drooby30 said:


> .22-250 with 40 grain at 300 yards has a muzzle velocity of 2658 and a drop of 6.1 inches
> 
> .223 with 40 grain at 300 yards has a muzzle velocity of 2265 and a drop of 8.8 inches


Yes it shoots flatter that is true but does it make it better. 300 win mag shoots flatter than a 30-06 but there still is a insane amount of people hunting with a 06.

I have both a 22-250 and a .223. I shoot the .223 more now because I like the gun better. Yes the 22-250 shoots flatter but you .223 amo is cheap go buy lots of it and shoot. You get comfortable and longer ranges with a .223 and you will drop coyotes all day long just as good as a 22-250. I also like how I can see the bullet impact with my .223 that I cant with my 250.


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## youngdon

itzDirty said:


> If I had to guess. I am pretty sure the Marine knows his ballistics. I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I like the 22-250 better. I want a .204 next.


Muzzle velocity on a 22-250 would be more like 3800 to 4000, unless you handload then it can approach 4200

Muzzle velocity on a .223 would likely be in the neighborhood of 3200 to 3400 and handloaded to approximately 3600.


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## Rick Howard

At 150 yards or less...... they are all flat. That is where most of mine are shot.


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## Rick Howard

Yes Don. I was saying that he mistakenly added the "muzzle" before velocity. LOL


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## drooby30

youngdon said:


> Is this a typo ? I don't think he meant to type muzzle


Yeah I meant velocity in ft/sec at 300 yards sorry haha. Must've been sleepy or talking to my fiancé haha.


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## youngdon

Yeah women will make you do that stuff...and more !



itzDirty said:


> If I had to guess. I am pretty sure the Marine knows his ballistics. I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I like the 22-250 better. I want a .204 next.


You'll like the 204. I got one a few years back and it shoots great and the recoil is so minimal that i can see hits on prairie dogs...And they are spectacular !


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## Rick Howard

Thats what I hear. I almost bought one but I got the .243. I already have a 22-250. I looked at ballistics, the .204 and 22-250 are kinda similar. I know they are different guns, but the ballistics look pretty similar. I had a hole between the 30-06 and the 22-250 I wanted to fill. .243 filled that gap nicely. I am thinking about the .204 in the fall.


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## knapper

Knowing your rifle and were it shoots at the different ranges is more important than distance. When you have a rifle that you don't like to shoot you will not shoot it as much and learn it as well. This is less likely the case with these calibers due to recoil. I go to the range be fore the hunting season come and some days I leave the range feeling I shoot lousy and other days its the opposite and I can't miss. I go back many times until they are all coming up with the feeling that I can't miss. Find the one you want and learn it, I think that what one you have in mind you will justify to yourself, they all work.


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## Beets

knapper said:


> Knowing your rifle and were it shoots at the different ranges is more important than distance. When you have a rifle that you don't like to shoot you will not shoot it as much and learn it as well. This is less likely the case with these calibers due to recoil. I go to the range be fore the hunting season come and some days I leave the range feeling I shoot lousy and other days its the opposite and I can't miss. I go back many times until they are all coming up with the feeling that I can't miss. Find the one you want and learn it, I think that what one you have in mind you will justify to yourself, they all work.


Example if you know the gun is gonna kick and are scared of the kick your probably not gonna shoot very well with that gun.


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## Deerhunter 28

I got my first .223 December 2011 and like it a lot !
However,nothing wrong with 22-250?

PSE EVO 57 Lbs.
Blacked out


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## JTKillough

22-250, 204, 243=expensive if you don't reload......223=cheap to operate,+surplus ammo available.....22-250 secured status as legendary varmint caliber, always will be, will dispatch coyote like nobody's business. 204 quickly earning a reputation as a coyote puncher without a heart, laser like and lightsaber speed. 243 long range....I'm thinking l o n g r a n g e....223 killed more enemy and coyote since 1963 than you could count, +you can get a semi-auto and have yourself a mad minute! If you run out of ammo after the thirty round clip, you can club the bugger with it!


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## C2C

I really debated between these two cartridges when I bought my first 22-250 .. However , my hunting partner shoots a 222 and the thought of getting 222 and 223 shells mixed in the truck steered me to the 250 .. Not sorry I made the choice , however there is nothing wrong with the 223 .May have even more bullet choices avaiable with 223 depending on twist rate you buy , seems to be a better selection in that caliber , or maybe my left hand was just getting in the way .. Happy hunting .


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## KrazyKowboy

Hey guys,
I realize I'm about 6 months late here but I stumbled across this question and figured it was time to make a profile, I predator hunt quite a bit here in South Dakota. I just got back from a weekend of hunting that lent itself well to this thread, so I figured I'd comment, late as it is. Three buddies and I went coyote hunting, one brought his .22-250 and the other two had .223s, I shoot a .243 with 58gr V-max hand loads







(I don't get to shoot much anymore being that I am the designated caller and guide haha). Anyway, I have been planning on picking up a .223 bolt sometime soon but this weekend may just have changed my mind. After watching my buddy with the .22-250 drop two yodelers out passed 400yrds I was thoroughly impressed (and a bit disappointed being that it is usually me and my .243 who get called on to do the long work). Being a reloader I think I have become more partial to .22-250. I understand that .223 can reach alot further than people give it credit and also often preach that most guns can outshoot their operator, I love the zip on the 250 and them coyotes sure didn't get a change to run off after getting popped. Sorry for the length, I'll end this, I get a little excited about my coyotes!


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## prairiewolf

Welcome to the site ! I agree if you want to shoot passed 300yds go with a 22-250, I just cant understand why so many want to shoot at those distances. I like to bring them in CLOSE !

JMO!!


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## KrazyKowboy

prairiewolf said:


> Welcome to the site ! I agree if you want to shoot passed 300yds go with a 22-250, I just cant understand why so many want to shoot at those distances. I like to bring them in CLOSE !
> 
> JMO!!


Yes sir, yes sir.
Both of the long shots were to pick up doubles. One after a shotgunner! (Had to defend my calling skills a bit







) Thanks for the welcome!


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## poe

I like both but over 300 yards I feel shooting skills play the biggest part.


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## youngdon

I agree poe, but I'd rather deal with the speed of the 250 than the hold over you'll need on a 223 at extended ranges.


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## Spearodafish

Hello all... I've killed plenty of coyotes with my 22-250 & my ONLY complaint is fur damage, especially if the round hits bone. I recently bought a 223 primarily because I want less damage on bobcat pelts. I've yet to test my theory, but look forward to any pics you may have of bobcats or coyotes shot with the 223 for a point of reference. Thanks


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## youngdon

Welcome to the forum Spearodafish !

Here is my opinion on going from a 22-250 to a 223 in a nutshell. They both shoot the same exact bullets the only difference is the speed at which they exit the muzzle and therefore the speed at which they hit the intended target. So, if you were to slow the 22-250 bullets down to 223 speeds you would have the same exact results. Theoretically of coarse.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say you wasted your money or anything of the sort, and you now have another gun. There ain't nothin' wrong with that


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## LeadHead

I love what my 22-250 can do. I have it sighted about 2-3 inches high at 125 yards and I can hold dead on a coyote out to 300 and knock 'em flat. That said, the .223 is definitely a contender and it's easy to find ammo much cheaper than a 22-250 if you don't reload. Budget-wise it's tough to beat the .223, and when it comes to varmints it'll still put out their lights mighty quickly.


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## 220swift

Welcome to the PT forum Spearodafish!


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## Spearodafish

Thanks for the warm welcome! Can always use a new gun







but aside from fur damage, my 22-250 has a very heavy varmint barrel & stock too. Loaded up with the Harris bi-pod & scope she's a HEAVY killing machine to tote around. I hear what your saying reference the reloading & speed, but I don't reload. I may when I retire for the added enjoyment but I have little free time as it is lol. My next gun will most likely be the .17 HMR. How's that been working on coyotes & bobcats? Again, I'm looking to put 'em down in their tracks with the least amount of fur damage. I'll submit my request for kill shots from 223 & .17 HMR if people have any. If I need to start another thread for that I can. Thanks


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## LeadHead

A .17 HMR is quite limited particularly for coyotes, though with good shot placement 150 yards is doable. My teenage boy was saving up his money to buy a .17 this summer but changed his mind and got a .223 instead. Still economical to shoot but much more flexible for hunting. In your case you might be happier with a .204 if you want high velocity and minimal pelt damage.


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## youngdon

A 17HMR is a great round when it's limitations are realized. I personally wouldn't shoot a coyote at more than 100yds with one and then it had better be a clear, no wind type shot. I'll second the 204 as a great round but then again at up close and personal distances you have the velocity to deal with.


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## Spearodafish

Thanks for the 17 HMR info! Sorry to crash this thread, but I'll be looking to see how the .223 does first. Heck, maybe this weekend if I get a chance...


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## prairiewolf

I know I am to late you got a 223. But just my 2 cents, I would go with a 204 if you want less pelt damage and still have almost the ballistics of the 250


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## CaliCoyoteCaller

Personally, I'll take the 22-250..I don't want to be in the position of wishing I had more gun. It has done me well both at close range and further out. Also, where I live, the .204 is hard to find ammo for. I'm sure you'd be happy as a pig in S#&t with any of them though. New guns are great! :nut:


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## Midwestshooter

New to the forum. Here goes nothing. I absolutely love my 22-250 but picked up a 204 at Cabelas when I was in Wisconsin of all places (bushmaster ar 204 for $699!). I think they both have great purposes, and lets face it, we can always make room for another gun! The 22-250 (savage BTCSS) is definitely my go to gun for distance on prairie dogs. and the 204 round from what I've seen and read, is great for internal damage and less pelt damage. Looking forward to trying it out in a few months when I return home from this deployment! I bought the 22-250 for prairie dogs. With that being said, the SS barrel won't be out in the field for coyotes. Sure would love to pop a coyote with it someday though 

GREAT information on this site! Glad to join everyone!


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## prairiewolf

Welcome to the site Midwestshooter !


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## rmead88

I love my 22-250 its a Winchester mdl 70 and I can put 5 shot groups inside a quarter at 100 yards its definitely my go to gun!


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## Muzzzy

It's a little late on this one, however I own 223,22-250 and 243. The difference between comparable calibers ( 223,22-250) are usually in the 10-15% range. with that said 223 ammo can be purchased cheaper than the 22-250. My 22-250 is my favorite of the three for predators. It's also the best shooting gun of the two. Accuracy is awesome and I am very particular to a nice trigger. The savage accutrigger is a great over the counter asset of my 22-250.

The 243 is a great round also, a little more stable in the wind than above mentioned but now your getting into mid caliber gun and ammo. Mine is a Remington Model 7, very light, short and easy to handle firearm. Great accuracy as well. loaded a little lighter is almost as flat the 22-250 but with do more pelt damage.

I have no experience with 204 but I am intrigued by it. Just a little nervous about wind drift and down range energy of the lightest bullets.


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## Glen

Hi Beef: It looks like you have already had a bunch of responses but here are my thoughts on this caliber / gun question.

Any gun will work while hunting Coyotes. Anything from a single shot .22 to a high end custom rifle.

The choice is what caliber would be your preference. Look at what the area your are going to hunt tells you. Long range shots or up close in heavy cover. With the wide selection of calibers available today it can be mind blowing. Then you want to realize that if you have a need for quick follow upshots you might want to go to a semi auto. But if you need something that is rock solid and accurate, a bolt action should be looked at. Then it is up to you to make that accurate shot and those follow up shot should not be needed. Practice and discipline is required here. You will not hit every dog you shoot at.


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## Keatts

22-250 is my choice...


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