# Remington 700 safety issues



## AWMiller

Anyone catch on CNBC the show last night covering the Remington 700 and it's safety issues?

Seems that there's a defect in the trigger mechanism that when conditions are right when you set the safety "on" and touch the bolt to eject the shell that the rifle will fire. They showed many videos from the military and other groups where this was occurring.

There have been many deaths as a result of this action but Remington is not owning up to the research and results that is being presented to them as it would be too costly to recall the 700s out in the market today and fix them.

Reports showed that Remington has known of this issue since the inception of the new "safety" mechanism and knew that it would have cost something like 5 cents a rifle to fix back at the time it was found (something like a total of $12K to fix back in the day). But Remington decided it would cost too much and kept producing the 700 with the known defect. Now if they were to recall and fix it would cost something like $22M!!! So I doubt they'll ever go that route.

If this is the case and all the facts were presented fairly on both sides of the fence, funny how profit outweighs a person's life......

Anyone here have a 700 and have experienced that problem?


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## bar-d

I did catch the show. I have been shooting Remington 700's for nearly 40 years, still have a 700BDL in .17 Remington and have never heard of the problem. I also had one in .30-06 up until a couple years ago. Never had a problem myself or known anyone else that had. Evidently, as they said on the show, Remington has done a good job of covering up the problem. Having said that, I take about half of what I hear on TV with a grain of salt. Negative stories make better "news" I guess. I doubt very seriously if they will air a program about the great safety record of Savage or Winchester.......etc.


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## ebbs

Good thoughts, Danny. Still crazy if it's true. MAJOR fail! And shame on the military for keeping it in circulation?


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## bar-d

Very true Eric. If all that is true you can bet someone has had their palms greased somewhere along the line to keep it out of the light of day.


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## wilded

Most of what you hear is from a model 700 that someone has adjusted the trigger. If you are not trained in Remington Triggers do not adjust the trigger, it can fail if adjusted too light. ET


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## bar-d

As can any other, good point Ed.


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## ebbs

OF COURSE! That would be too much detail and truth for the news to give us.


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## wilded

Here is a good article about the 700 trigger report. ET

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...remington-model-700-trigger?cmpid=enews102210


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## On a call

Well you asked if any of had any. We have 5 older and newer. The only problem I have ever had was...

1. One had a very light trigger when I got it....no big problem I just adjusted it.

2. I have one that in order to unload it...you must take it off the safety. This I do not like.


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## youngdon

Remington seems to be dropping the ball a lot lately, their 17hmr fiasco convinced me to not buy any of their rifles. I am glad to hear that they decided to make that one right finally, after a lot of bad publicity, and rightfully so.


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## knapper

One of the guys I work with had it happen some years back on a hunting trip, he is putting in a safety that will not allow you to open the bolt with the safety is on, it is a three position safety. The only one I have had trouble with was on a swede that had a sporting trigger and the trigger had come loose on the action. I tightened it up and all was fine. I just kept checking it more often. I lost it on a walk in sheep hunt while I was crossing a river.


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## youngdon

Wow, that had to suck!


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## knapper

I didn't miss it as much as I could have, my pack was 110 lbs. with out it. I then bought a rifle length with a 29.5 " barrel in full military and take it out every once in awhile.


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## JTKillough

First rule, never point a gun anywhere you don't want to place a bullet. Whenever you unload a gun, have it pointed in a safe direction. Basic firearm safety taught in a basic firearms course, and I highly recommend it. I have never been a Remington man, but it seems to me that if there was cause for concern, that the trigger or safety system of a given type or brand of rifle was defective, that manufacturer would fix the problem at no charge to the customer. Someone quoted a price tag of $22 million, a drop in the bucket, for a sporting rifle maker with credentials like Remington. I am not however a fan of CNBC, and am convinced that they are against everything freedom loving Americans stand for, including guns. My guess would be that someone adjusted the trigger on a Remington, and the problem stemmed from there, (if said problem exists?) and the anti's jumped at the chance. If I am proven wrong, then you can chastise me here on Predator Talk for sticking to my guns, even if they are not manufactured by Remington.


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## MGTEXAS

I would imagine that the safety failures are at least partially due to non-professional adjustments. I own several 700s and have never had a single issue with any of them. However, I have been looking into a model 722, made in the 50s or very early 60s and a 788 made in the 60's. turns out that the 788 apparently was discontinuned due to safety failures in 83. The 700 evolved from that problem. It apparently was even the same type of problem causing the shells to be fired. Remmy has some problems that they need to address.

MG


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## TexAgBQ81

Am with JTK in that I only believe 1/2 of what CNBC says then take the other 1/2 with a grain of salt. that being said there could be something wrong but, with as many of them out there, i would venture to say that someone had worked on it.
I have three 788's and have no problems with 2 of them the third has never been fired.


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## luckyshot

Ive owned several older 700's but never had that problem.Was asking a dealer yesterday about the new triggers on the 700,said its designed to fix the possible problem,the way it shouldve been.Talked to a gunsmith at Gander Mtn. couple months ago, said one of the old ones went off on him,he said because it was all gummed up,nasty.The dealer i talked to said same thing,gummed up triggers blamed on the ones he heard of.New X-Mark(i think)supposed to be the fix.


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## youngdon

Like anything else in todays society it has to be made bullet proof (read idiot proof)((read lawyer proof)). But as a problem develops, a company that makes an instrument that kills things when it fails should have made an adjustment in their trigger mechanism years ago. If the problems are arising when people adjust them to low, how about we just make it not able to be adjustable to that level, or make a decent non adjustable trigger. Iam surprised that paper companies are not selling sheets of paper with rounded over edges on them. A paper cut is very annoying and can certainly garner a half million or so.


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## shep2805

It happened to me a couple of years ago. Slid the bolt forward and the rifle discharged. Hit the ground--and got us a little excited. But my hand was no where near the trigger--think about where your hand is when you slide the bolt forward and you know there's no way to engage the trigger. I didn't realize until today that the problem is so widespread. Luckily nothing hurt but my pride.


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## youngdon

Welcome to the forum Shep2805.

Glad to hear no one got hurt.


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## Ruger

I don't have any remmingtons but my little brother has used a 700 for about 15 years and never had an issue. I would have to agree with JTK that to always follow firearm safety. No matter what type ot brand of firearm you are using it could be that one malfunction or mishap that could be deadly. Something that has been imprinted on my mind was the way my father introduced to me when he taught me to shoot and to respect a firearm. He explained to me that a gun was a KILLING tool, it was invented to end life. It was something that has always stuck in my mind on the responsbility a person carries when he handles a firearm.


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## knapper

That is one of the reasons why you don't point it at something you don't was to destroy.


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## bar-d

..........







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## bar-d

Welcome Shep.


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## bones44

Welcome shep !! Glad to hear you're safe !!


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## On a call

I have a question for those who have 700's. One of mine an older one you have to take the gun off safe to unload or open the chamber.

Do you guys have any like that ? The new ones are not like that...or is it just mine ?


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## glenway

Remington cleared in trigger lawsuit.

http://www.peninsuladailynews.com/a...loses-federal-case-against-rifle-manufacturer


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## yamartin

OK, I agree that the first rule of firearm safety is to make suree that the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction, and not everyone is a safe gun handler. BUT, I have had this problem with my 700, and I have been handling firearms for 50 years. In addition, my wife's 788 ( which we no longer have) once fired upon closing the bolt. In my opinion, safe handling is a must, but the bottom line is that Remington knew about this for years and didn't do anything about it because of costs. I personally will not own any centerfire rifle without a safety that blocks the firing pin. As far as this being a "liberal media" issue, it seems like the folks at Remington have given them the ammunition that they need. And charging people for the fix is unnaceptable. Remington needs to step up to the plate, fix the old guns, and redesign the 700.


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## Mattuk

Welcome to PT yamartin.


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## youngdon

Welll said yamartin, I agree wholeheartedly and will NOT buy a remington product until they do. They pulled the same crap with the 597 (the rimfire semi auto they made that wouldn't handle the 17HMR) They offered $200 to the owners of a useless POS that many of them paid considerably more for. After a bit of pressure and a lawsuit or two they stepped up. Hopefully the owners got a fair exchange.


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## youngdon

And welcome to the forum.... sorry you got me going on the remington issue...


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## foxer

i've heard of this problem. i have a newer 700 and never had this type problem with it, not to say it doesn't exist. there is actually a rebuttal video on this topic by Remington.


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## Chicken_Grease

I've owned several Remington 700 rifles and if I messed with them, I could get any of them to go off when closing the bolt or even wiggling the bolt. But, I had to mess with them to get there. I'm not a fan of any enclosed trigger system, but a can of compressed air and a blow through the trigger group from time to time gets some of the crud out that can build up inside. Don't screw with a trigger unless you really know what you're doing.


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## Jrab83

I have a remmington 700 VTR, chambered in .308. I shoot this gun a lot, both at the range and hunting applications. I have had this issue arise more than once. The first time it happened was with some of my reloads, and thought perhaps the reloaded ammo was to blame. I could make the rifle fire by actuating the safety from the on to off (fire) positions about one of every 15 times i cambered a round with the safety in the on (safe) position. However i did not that if i chambered a round with the safety in the off (fire) position, then switched the safety to the on (safe) position, then switching it back to the off (fire) position, the rifle would never discharge, except when the trigger was pulled.

My remming ton 700 VTR is one of my most useful and practical rifles i own. The VTR with its shorter barrel length makes it quite handy when cruising around the ranch and such. The safety issue had not made me stop using the gun, but has instilled a greater sense of caution when handling the firearm.

I will also note that my discovery and testing that i did was well before i saw the CNBC program which discussed this exact issue. Also, the 700 VTR, as with some other new 700 models( 2007 or later) feature the X-Mark Pro trigger, from which i understand no major changes were made to the basic design and function of the mechanism. I wish i knew more about the exact changes that were made between the standard trigger and the x-Mark pro trigger, but i don't. Looking at the exploded diagrams of the two triggers side by side, i don't see any major design changes.

If any one can bring to light the design changes or improvements made, i would appreciate it. Maybe remmingtion can clue me in. Ha Ha


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## Jrab83

I should have also noted that when i switch to some factory loads the results were the same. I tried multiple factory ammo brands, all popular brands such as Remmington, Federal, Hornady and Winchester as well a using different brand cases in my reloads. With the results about the same , an unintended discharge via safety actuation (Safe to fire position) about 1 in 15 times or about 7% of the time. Those a pretty hairy stats when i comes to firearm safety. I strongly agree with some of the other posts in this discussion that firearms safety, above and be all is the only way to truly make a firearm as safe as it can be. I probably don't need to go into specifics in regards to safe handling of firearms on this particular forum, because it (seems) most folks on predator talk at least have that aspect, firearm safety , ingrained in there brain quite well. But accidents do happen, alot, and even to people that have handled firearms safely for many years. But u just can't start letting your guard down, because when u do u start to develop bad safety habits. When this happens, it really a matter time, bad luck or both before there is an incident. Whether someone is killed or injured, or the gun just shoots a hole in ur floor boards, an unintended or negligent discharge had occurred and that is simply not acceptable and appropriate measures should be take to help insure that it does not happen again. Whether it be improved maintenance , of improved firearm safety proceeders are made.

Also noting in regard to my reloads, the cases i was using were either once or twice fired brass, that i trimmed to appropriate length, or brand new never fired brass that i also checked and confirmed the overall length was correct.

TREAT EVER GUNS AS IF IT WERE LOADED.

KNOW YOUR TARGET AND BEYOND, AND BEYOND THAT
ALWAYS POINT THE MUZZLE IN A SAFE DIRECTION, ALWAYS.

My heart go out to the family in the CNBC episode where the mothers Rem 700 discharged with out the trigger being pulled, but was the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. I think the answer is obvious. Im not disputing the fact that the gun malfunctioned, but i can say that one of the 3 general rules of firearm safety were not followed. With such a tragic accident it can be hard to point fingers this way or that, but in this incident 2 storms came together in the perfect m/s to cause the tragic situation, Rem 700 safety issue and keeping the muzzle in a safe direction, not just 20 feet in front of the muzzle, but hundreds of yard beyond the muzzle. I my opinion the safest position for the muzzle to be in both loading, unloading, and the carrying of the loaded firearm is down, pointed at the ground. A rifle slung over the should with the muzzle pointed up is not a bad way to carry a loaded rifle, but a steep downward angle is far better. If a firearms discharges with the muzzle pointed up is a good way to protect those in close proximity to you, but a rifle bullet, weather it a .22 LR, .223 win, or a 300 Win mag., have the capability of traveling very long distances. Although, the chances of that bullet coming in contact with a person are low, the chance is still there. I more populated areas, like the opening weekend of gun deer season in wisconsin, there are many hunters in the woods. Not in all parts of the state, but in some, where u can see bodies of blaze orange all around you, it only makes sense that the odds of stray flying bullet hitting some one increase. As safe as firearm manufactures and natural resource personal try to make gun hunting, every year there are countless incidents of people being killed or injured to operator error or mechanical failure. It is simply up the the individual to make sure he or she is handling their firearm as safety as possible, and to correct others when they see a firearm is being handle unsafely. I feel is our duty as Older or more experienced firearm users to train and mentor those newly introduced to the firearm world, or even someone that has used guns for a length of time. If you see unsafe handling, bring it to their attention, and show them how to properly remedy the issue. It may be hard for someone like me, 28 years old, to tell my great uncle(76 yrs old) that he is not working the gun safety, but the possible outcome if u don't can end in unthinkable tragedy.

Also noting in regard to my reloads, the cases i was using were either once or twice fired brass, that i trimmed to appropriate length, or brand new never fired brass that i also checked and confirmed the overall length was correct.


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## showmeyote

Why dont you have Remington look at your rifle? Seems that in all cases but one, they had found the trigger assembly was tampered with.


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## youngdon

Welcome to the forum Jrab83.

I would definitly have someone, look at that gun....It's an accident waiting to happen.


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