# What caliber rifle?????



## Ward (Jan 18, 2011)

*If you were buying a new rifle for varmints and predators,what caliber would you buy?*​
222 62.55%223 8636.60%22-250 7933.62%2436427.23%


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## Ward (Jan 18, 2011)

If you were buying a new gun? What caliber would you buy?


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## Helmet_S (Mar 18, 2010)

I am voting for the 243 only becuase you don't have the 204 on there.


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## Ward (Jan 18, 2011)

Helmet_S said:


> I am voting for the 243 only becuase you don't have the 204 on there.


Sorry ,I was gonna put in the 204 and the 17hmr but it slipped my mind as I was makeing the post !!!


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## RoughNeck (Mar 16, 2010)

I have all but the 243,and 22-250 but would like a 243


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## showmeyote (Dec 12, 2010)

I like the idea of loading the 243 down for varmint, and up for thicker skinned game. I have been reading some load charts and this will be my next gun. Matter of fact just in a couple weeks ill pick it up. Loading down to 55g v-max, and keeping speeds down to around 3700fps, it shouldnt do any more damage then the 223 or 22-250. I own a 223 and a 250, I had a 17hmr and I would rather hunt with a .22 mag. The 17 just doesnt have it. IMO.


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## El Gato Loco (Jan 15, 2010)

I've watched a lot of game fall to the 223 with a nice fragmenting bullet. I am actually a little sick of the guys who swear they need a bigger round to support their crappy shots.

You hear guys talk about bullet placement and I for one am a strong believer. I don't shoot at eyes at night, or silhouettes during the day. When I shoot, I aim for, and hit the heart. Otherwise, I let 'em walk.


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## poe (Feb 10, 2010)

I used to use a .243 and loved it but I now use a 22-250 and love it. If I was to buy another coyote gun it would be a 22-250. My second choice would prob be a .223 and if I wanted to shoot fox and Bobcat as well as coyotes I would maybe look at the 17 remington. I think that little 17 would be a fox and bobcat killing machine. They also well put down a coyote with no problem just as long as you do your part. But since I just would use it for coyotes 22-250 is my pick.


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## Helmet_S (Mar 18, 2010)

Chris Miller said:


> I've watched a lot of game fall to the 223 with a nice fragmenting bullet. I am actually a little sick of the guys who swear they need a bigger round to support their crappy shots.
> 
> You hear guys talk about bullet placement and I for one am a strong believer. I don't shoot at eyes at night, or silhouettes during the day. When I shoot, I aim for, and hit the heart. Otherwise, I let 'em walk.


I totally agree with what Chris is saying about needing a bigger gun to compensate. I use a 204 and would put it up against any 223, 22-250, and 243 out there on a coyote and smaller. heck I would have no problem going after a hog with one. The darn round is deadly accurate and a behind the ear shot on a hog would be a no brainer (pund intended). I am also a firm beleiver in not taking an animal unless I know that I am going to put it down as quickly and painless as possible. I don't hesitate to take a shot out to 300 yards and past that I just have to slow down and think. I also love single shot rifles becuase they help teach you to be picky and choose your shots.

Not to stir the pot. it is just my opinion. Remember Opinions are like Buttholes, Everyone has one and they all spew crap.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Welcome to the forum Ward.

I would buy a 22-250 if I were buying a new rifle mostly because I have never owned one and I already own two of the other three. The 222 is not an option in my book. (sorry to those of you who have them) I think that it is a dying round or at least fading. I don't see much of them out here in the west. I have a 243 and love it, it shoots like a laser. The .223 is the least expensive round to shoot if you don't reload. The .204 is an awesome round and again shoots like a laser, but energy drops off fast past 300yds., which may be a non issue to a lot of hunters. It is fine on Prairie dogs to past 400 but lacks the energy to kill a coyote sized animal (cleanly) at those extended ranges IMO. 
Now if I were starting all over I would buy the .243(especially if I need a deer rifle too) then perhaps a 22-250 or a 220Swift, probably in a Ruger#1(just because I love the look and feel). I am warming to my .223 (AR) and like the .204... alot.

Geez... I sound like a politician.

So heres the tough love version... Start looking at ballistic charts and costs of ammo and see what fits your bill... trips your trigger.. or floats your boat.


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## Mattuk (Oct 16, 2010)

You say to hunt predator's, does that include wolf and cougar? As a .243 would cope fine with them and for the rest of the varmints nothing can be to dead! But with any of the smaller rounds I'm not sure I would trust on more dangerous game. Just a thought.


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## poe (Feb 10, 2010)

I was thinking of getting a .204 when I got a 22-250 but decided not to because I got a lot of mixed reviews on them. One friend had one and went back to 22-250 because he was getting to many runners. Another friend said he thought it was a good gun after he found some good reloads but didn't think it was all that much better than his 22-250. I also watched an operation predator video and I seen a lot of coyotes run off on shots that i felt were good shots when the .204 was used. Im not saying the .204 is a bad choice for coyotes its just not my choice. I didn't see enough pro's to make me pick it over the 22-250.


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## On a call (Mar 3, 2010)

Mostly I am using a .222 mag in a remington 700. It is a great round a little hotter than a .223. It shoot out to about 300 yards with little droppage. When the 50 grains hits its mark it punches but without blasting. Shoot placement is what it is all about.

I want a .243 for really looooooong shots.


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## lucas_shane (Jan 25, 2011)

pick what you "want" !!! Go to the range or to the pasture and shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, and shoot. Did I mention shoot ? Then shoot some more !
when you think you got it down pat with that paticular gun take the top off your soda or water bottle and trace it out on your target. When you can consistantle put 3-5 rounds in that bottle cap circle @ 100 yards then go have some fun killing animals.

Im a firm believer in shot placement rather than BIGGER guns. That is my biggest arguments all the forums I talk on. NO I am not an expert shot but I CAN do what I just told you to do with ALL my guns. I have been shooting deer since I was 5 and varmints since I was 9 and I am 31 ( still wet behind the ears, lol ) and I can count on ONE hand how many animals ( other than hogs ) that I have had walk more than a few steps. The biggest thing in my closet is 270 wsm and its NEVER BEEN FIRED ( still got the tags on it ) other than that one it is a 22-250 down the 17 rem fireball in the centerfires and then a cpl 22 lr. I can clean kill anything that might be in my area with everything I have. Like mentioned above, dont shoot at shining eyes, or outlines, sound shots ect ect. KNOW what you are shooting at and know your gun and PLACE your shot and you will see the kill ratio go up tremendously !!

I said "other than hogs" earlier on in the post and with that being said my first shot results in a DRT and then I just want to give the fleeing hogs lead poisoning !!! Not humane I know but the place I hunt is covered up with them and the landowner wants them DEAD !

sorry for a long post just figured I give my .02 cents for what its worth. GOOD LUCK AND HAPPY SHOOTING !!!!


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## singlesix (May 13, 2010)

I just bought a 22-250 and got to use it on a yote yesterday. I would have been happy with 223, 243, or 204 but its just the caliber i decided to go with because it was available in the rifle i wanted at the time. The 22-250 really put a hurting on that coyote and i was surprised to see a entrance hole about 4 inches and no exit. I was using a 45gr hollow point (its the only ammo they had when i bought the gun) and the shot was only about 40 50ish yards. Im glad i ordered some soft point bullets that ill be reloading. All in all im really happy with the 22-250, not much recoil and flat shooting.


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## Antlerz22 (Apr 18, 2011)

.243 for me due to a larger bullet equals more stability in windy conditions and greater downrange energy translating into cleaner kills at greater ranges IMO, also it with the 55gr bullets shoots 3925fps which is 75 fps slower than the 22-250 at 4000 fps which is nothing really. And it can be used on larger game as well.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

That's how I think too antlerz, when i think of only having one rifle for predators an varmints.


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## Antlerz22 (Apr 18, 2011)

4 more weeks YD! and I'll have my "custom" so to speak .243. I ordered a Savage Model 12 fcv but its only offered in .223 or 22-250--so I asked Savage to chamber me a .243 they said ok in that model. Also I asked them to NOT flute the barrel, which is how it comes normally and again they said ok, lastly I had them to camoflage it in mossy oak brush-- barrel and stock as well which also isnt normally offered in the 12 fcv. I picked the 12 fcv because it has a 26'' barrel vs their predator model which has a 24". I wanted more velocity as well as an upperhand on accuracy, Sunday I bought the Nikon Coyote Special and got a picatinny one piece weaver base as well as Nikon mossy oak brush rings for it. Money has been flowing out, but at least Im not out chasing women or gambling (not that I do)! LOL Going out Saturday and Sunday yote hunting. will have my trusty .270 as my death wand. Heres my grouping, but it was only three rounds as I was just confirming as I do every now and then my guns accuracy. Each square is one inch ,so they better keep their heads down! LOL


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

That's some pretty good shooting there antlerz, at 250yds.... at 100 that would be just over one hole.


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## Antlerz22 (Apr 18, 2011)

not quite one hole but its a ragged hole, this believe it or not is factory ammo in my stock rem model 700 in .270. I have played with adjusting my sear engagement and creep as best I could to facilitate a better trigger pull. It originally was horrendous, but I used remington crisp and found another site (cant remember) that detailed exactly how to do all the adjustments necessary. I then tested it to make absolutely sure it wouldnt fire accidentally by banging it quite firmly on the buttstock on fire to try to make it fire and found a safe setting. Anyway, I havent retooled up my old reloading stuff (need new dies) as mine have signs of neglect since not being used for so long and being stored over the years. So Im now saving for my new investment of a Forster coaxial press and thier bench-rest dies (adjustable to 1 ten thousandth of an inch) and an oal bore gauge, vs smoking my rounds with carbide like I used to- to very seating distance. Im hoping to post a real tight group with my .243 when I get the package completed with all my components --scope rings etc... I think its going to be a tack driver. I have the patience and time to tweak away and it will be so. A gun that wont group is like a woman who cant cook or anything. You get rid of em!!!!! LOL:roflmao:


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## Bigdrowdy1 (Jan 29, 2010)

I would have to say a 22-250 would be my next purchase. I have the 17 hmr,the 223 in 3 different forms, the 223 WSSM,and the 243 with a 25-06 to boot.Not that I need it but with all the 224 bullets I am already loading it would be cheap to play with. It would use more powder than the 223 but less than the 243 and 25-06.I stress the word play as most of my bullets are put down range at paper not by choice but by circumstances that I dont have control over yet. I suffer from the affliction of the grass is always green in the other calibers.LOL With that said I just wonder about the 308 for long distance trials and lets not forget the 6.8 spc for the Ar lower for the hogs. Sorry but that how my mind rolls didnt mean to jump calibers. 270 Huh theres a new thought. The 223 can be used as the infamous 22 cal plinker as you can buy some ammo cheaper than you can reload Buuuutttt there is the tinkering with the plinkering factor that falls in there. Ballistclly the 223 wssm and 22-250 are fairly close to each other. Its not the speed that kills It is the placement of the shot. The 22-250 uses less power and is cheaper and easier to fine brass for. The 223 wssm is fun to shoot though. Nothing like watching the impact of the shot through the scope and hearing the reconizable smack signaling contact. It does as other s have said make a mess for sure. The 243 is new to me but I think I am really gonna like it when Dad lets me shoot it.LOL Anyway enough said sorry for the rambling.


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## buckfynn (May 7, 2011)

I would like to buy a new one in each caliber if money were no object.







But life doesn't seem to work that way, at least not for me.

All the calibers on the list have their place. I have been using the .22-.250 and the .243 for over 30 years.

The reason I like the .22-.250 is it shoots flat out of the box with factory ammo. Lately I have been mainly using Hornady 50 gr. V-Max which pushes 3800fps out of the muzzle. The performance from Nosler's 50 gr ballistic tips are equally good. Sighting the rifle in at 200 yards, it shoots +1 high at 100 yards and -5 at 300 yards. I rarely shoot over 250 yards with this rifle. My Remington 700 VLS is sweet which shoots 3 shot 3/8" groups at 100 yards on a good day. This is the second Reminton 700 .22-.250 I have owned. The first was a BDL with a standard weight barrel which was made in 1978.

I purchased an old Sako Forester .243 with the L57 action which I intended to use for a coyote rifle. I tried using the 58 gr. factory V-Max loads with disappointing results. Even 100 gr soft points produced marginal results. So I took this rifle to a gunsmith and he told me the barrel had too long of a throat to shoot the stubby 58 gr. V-Max's with any accuracy. So I had him put a 26" Lija barrel with a 1:12 twist on it. After trying several combinations I settled on using 70 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips, 70gr. MatchKings and 70 gr. soft points using 40 gr. of IMR 3031 which produces 3500+fps at the muzzle. Now I just wish Nosler would make a 70 gr Partition bullet for the .243. The rifle sighted in at 200 yards shoots +1" at 100 yards and -5.5" at 300 yards. I have shot out to 400 yards with good results with this rifle. The hand loaded 70 gr. MatchKings produced reasonable results out of my .243 Ruger #1 also.

Before I used either of the above calibers, I acquired a second hand JC Higgins M52 with the Sako L46 action in .222 caliber. I shot nothing but 55 gr. factory loads. Sighted in at 200 yards it was +2 at 100 yards and -7.5 at 300 yards which is close to what one should expect with a 100 gr .243. It was a nice shooting rifle. I wish I would have never gotten rid of it. The rifle saw the fate of between 450 to 500 coyotes.

Going back even further in time I used a Savage 99 .250-3000 (.250 Savage) with peep sites which worked for killing coyotes but definitely lacked in accuracy.

I have also tried a .17 Remington which I personally didn't care for much. Way too many runners and problems with wind drift with the .17 for my tastes. The 220 Swift is another favorite of mine. My 220 Swift is now retired and more of a collectors item.

If I were to buy a coyote rifle today it would be a 25-06. It has the ballistic advantages of the .243 but with a better bullet selection for the trajectory I desire. Plus the energy of a 100 gr 25.06 is almost double that of a 70 gr. .243 at 500 yards. I am impressed with the rather low pelt damage the TTSX rounds produce.


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## SKYKOWBOY (May 13, 2011)

What can be said that hasn't been already. Well 243 for me, sorry but the 223 is plain boring. Its caught between the superb accuracy of the 222 and it will never match up to the hotrod (22-250) . The 243 is big varmint cartridge, it has won Hi-power benchrest, it will knock the wheels off a whitetail, shoots flat, readily available ammo, mild recoil, shall I go on? The 223 only place in existence is that it is the civilian 5.565. Personality the 223 is as interesting as playing chess with a waffle.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Leggo my eggo. I was hoping that you would go on extolling the virtues of the .243 though............I'm listening.


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## SKYKOWBOY (May 13, 2011)

I got a Axis in .223 and LOVE it, come with equally awesome glass. Best gun in the world. It will kill unicorns at 1000 yards, shoot .224 groups if I measure edge to edge..........still listening?


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## tnt1960 (Jun 6, 2011)

I voted for the .243! That's what I'd want!


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Welcome to the forum tnt1960. What do you shoot now ?


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## tnt1960 (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks, youngdon! Right now I'm going to use my Remington 700 ADL in 30-06 using 125 grain pointed soft point bullets. I was looking at the 55 grain 30-06 accelerator bullets, but I can't seem to find them anywhere! Are the 125 grain bullets too heavy for coyote, or will they be ok? Thanks!


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

They'll be fine, especially if you're just looking to remove them from the food chain. If you're looking to save fur a smaller caliber would be an advantage IMO , but dead is dead. The .243 is not the fur friendliest either, but with well placed shots and correct bullet selection it will reach out and touch them at some incredible distances. There is a lot of debate over which is the best cartridge for predators, but the truth is that the one you can shoot well is the best no matter the caliber.


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## CoyoteCaller93 (Aug 12, 2011)

I have .204, 223, 2 22-250's and a .243! I love the 204 because it is flat shooting and with proper shot placement will take coyotes out to 450 with no problems. The .223 is nice because most coyotes come within 200 yards and with a bullet like the VMAX will drop coyotes with no problems. The .243 is great with any bullet on coyotes however I tend to favor the .58 grain VMAX and the 75 grain hp. At this point I am carrying one of my 22-250's almost all the time. I have 2 now and will be getting a couple more this year once I sell a few more guns that I don't use much. Depending on the rifle I am shooting 50 or 55 grain VMAX or hollow points. I do have to admit that the 22-250 tends to tear up Bobcats and Foxes. I would go 22-250 if I were getting one rifle for just coyotes. The .243 is great if you plan on using it for deer or antelope as well.


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## Ruger (Jan 22, 2011)

I'm a 204 man. I have nothing against the other calibers, I would like to own some of them. But if I put my bullet where I should with my 204 it does the job.


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## Antlerz22 (Apr 18, 2011)

youngdon said:


> Leggo my eggo. I was hoping that you would go on extolling the virtues of the .243 though............I'm listening.


Okay, it pokes out at 3750 with the hornady 58gr vmax or 3925 with the hornady 58gr vmax superformance, making it only second to the 22-250 with a 50 gr at 4000fps. So it is a notch above the rest for all intents and purposes if small, fast, versatile and far reaching are desirable traits for varmint and bigger!.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

You can easily push a 55gr NBT to 4000 out of a 243. A 22-250 in 40 grNBT is faster for sure but lacks that over the horizon knockdown power.


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## destructive_mechanic (Jul 22, 2011)

I say .223, but its because I have put hundreds of thousands or more rounds through them over the last 10 years in every type of terrain on the planet in all types of unimaginable circumstances and am a surgeon with one. That is probably the only gun on the planet that I know its true capabilities and am comfortable with in every way. If i was that intimate with other calibers I may feel different though.


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## Gerhard (Feb 1, 2010)

I would choose the 243 AI or 6mm Rem AI.

All have a 22K Hornet with close to 700 jackal and I am waiting for my 222 Rem license.

The 243 class rifle will enable me to hunt a bit more than just jackal and carecal.

The 222 Rem with a 40 to 50gr bullet at over 3000fps is more than enough for my night calling.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Do you reload Gerhard ?

You have to be licensed for each new rifle ?


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## Gerhard (Feb 1, 2010)

youngdon said:


> Do you reload Gerhard ?
> 
> You have to be licensed for each new rifle ?


Yes, I reload for all my weapons.

From the 22K Hornet to the 500 Jeff.

Yes, each firearm must be licensed.

The process is extremely tedious.

I waited 18 months for my 500 Jeff license for instance.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Yeah it sounds like a pain in the arse. Do you have to prove efficiency ?


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## Trailsendtom (Oct 3, 2011)

223 for me.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Do you prefer a bolt or a semi-auto Tom ?


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## RWP45 (Aug 15, 2011)

All you need in southeast Ks. is a 204 or shotgun and a good call. Its going to be 20 yds to 150 with and average of 75 yds.


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## SHOOTER13 (Mar 14, 2010)

I would use a .223


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## alann (Nov 18, 2011)

I would get 223 in AR platform. Already have 22-250 in a bolt action.


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## yotehd (Apr 10, 2011)

Well i didnt see my 2 favorites the 220 swift and the 17remington so il will pick the 22-250 which is 3rd on my list.


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## Judo (Mar 16, 2010)

I like the 223 for the simple fact it is low recoil and I can watch everything happen in the scope. I have a 222 and I have never had a problem bringing down a dog with it either.


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## eyemall (Jul 5, 2010)

I have a 204 and I like it. The reason I went with the 223 is because I would like to have a AR chambered in that caliber. One day I will have it.LOL


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## bigwalnutfly (Dec 16, 2010)

My son wants a good all purpose rifle for predators (coyote, fox and raccoon in our area maybe bobcats if we travel). We have heard 17HMR 22 250 and 223 and someone mentioned a 218 Bee. I have not ventured from a 22 hornet so looking for some opinion/advice. Thanks in advance.


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## bar-d (Feb 3, 2010)

Ward said:


> If you were buying a new gun? What caliber would you buy?


Already have all of them.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

bigwalnutfly said:


> My son wants a good all purpose rifle for predators (coyote, fox and raccoon in our area maybe bobcats if we travel). We have heard 17HMR 22 250 and 223 and someone mentioned a 218 Bee. I have not ventured from a 22 hornet so looking for some opinion/advice. Thanks in advance.


Stay away from the 17HMR. it has a effective range that is to small for coyote sized game. There are a multitude of calibers that are suitable for coyotes. If he wants a "solely for predators" gun then the 204, .222, 222mag, 223, 220 swift, 22-250, 243, 25-06, are the most popular(I'm sure I left something out) If ammo prices are a concern then the 223 would be my choice for predators. But if there is a chance he wants to use it for deer as well then I'd recommend a 243, or 25-06 as minimum calibers for him.


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## DanielB (Nov 15, 2011)

I shot one coyote with my .308 deer rifle it dropped it in its tracks but left a nice hole in the pelt giving me reason not to get it professionally done. Im asking for a .223 for Christmas (ruger mini-14) I used a 223 when I was littler and dropped the one deer and hog I both shot with it dead where they stood. Seems to have plenty of force for all sized game up to mabey a mulie, but with good shot placement who knows?


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## Richie1 (Apr 19, 2011)

I like my Ruger 77 bolt 22-250 , from box with 3x9 scope , a couple minor adjments , driving thumb tacks at 50 yds


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## Chris S (Nov 7, 2011)

If I were getting a new gun I'd go with .243 because... I already have a .223







I don't have the others but I'd still go with .243


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## keener205 (Apr 3, 2010)

22-250 is what I hunt with. I own a 243 and a 223 all are good its all in what ur comfortable with. I hear all about placement but things happen and yotes move at the last minute. Its nice to know if something happens I got enough bullet and power to put what ever down.


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## upstateNYshooter (Oct 18, 2011)

I'd stick to the 230, the 22-250 is a real close seconds though. All around gun tho has to go with the 243 because you can even take medium/big game with if needed


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## LsuHunter (Dec 1, 2011)

I would get a .223 just because I love the AR platform. I actually just ordered a 6.8 spc upper for it. Cant wait to get that beast in and out into the field.


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## Toolsofthetrade (Mar 3, 2010)

I would actually get the 6.5 Grendel for an "all purpose" rifle, but of youre choices i chose the .223 for round versatility.


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## McYoteHunter (Dec 4, 2011)

I voted .223 because I just bought a .243 bolt. I want an AR .223 eventually.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

I'm in the .243 camp mostly due to versatility, closely followed by I already have a Striker in .243 that is an excellent shooter, and if I had another .243 that would save buying two different kinds of ammo for one purpose. For me at least its nice to be able to just switch rounds when the game changes (say from 'yotes to cougar) without switching firearms. I haven't had a chance to "chrony" any of the heavier rounds out of the Striker yet but the Hornady 58 grn ballistic tips leave the 12" barrel at just over 3300 fps, and off my daypack I can keep groups at just over 3" at 200 yds. To me at least thats not bad from a "handgun" in the under $500. category. If however cost wasn't a factor I'd like to try a .204, I know its not on the list but several included it so I will too.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

You'd enjoy it.


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

I've been reading this topic since it started and I feel like an outsider with the 220 Swift, however, I would not trade it for anything. Over 30 years old and just as deadly now as when I aquired it 26 years ago.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

I don't blame you one bit...I've always wanted one, but fewer and fewer companies chamber stock rifles for it anymore... I don't get it.


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

youngdon said:


> I don't blame you one bit...I've always wanted one, but fewer and fewer companies chamber stock rifles for it anymore... I don't get it.


factory ammo also getting hard to find, reloading now more than ever


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Better stock up on brass.


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

youngdon said:


> Better stock up on brass.


I currently have 200 rounds loaded and another 250 cleaned and sized. Always looking at gun shows for more.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

I've only shot one 220 swift but it was a joy to shoot, and tended to make who ever pulled the trigger look good, the lack of ammo and stories about them "wearing out the barrel" due to projectile speeds are both concerns for me though.


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## Mattuk (Oct 16, 2010)

JLowe69 said:


> I've only shot one 220 swift but it was a joy to shoot, and tended to make who ever pulled the trigger look good, the lack of ammo and stories about them "wearing out the barrel" due to projectile speeds are both concerns for me though.


So do you shoot 200 to 300 coyotes and bobcats a year then?


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

JLowe69 said:


> I've only shot one 220 swift but it was a joy to shoot, and tended to make who ever pulled the trigger look good, the lack of ammo and stories about them "wearing out the barrel" due to projectile speeds are both concerns for me though.


That is all hooey for the most part. Many rifles have had that label put on them at one time or another. Modern metallurgy has helped as has the newer powder selection for manufacturers and handloaders, even if you shoot 200-300 rounds in a weekend at prairie dogs you shouldn't have much of a problem as long as you don't overheat the barrel, that is IMO when you'll start burning it out the worst.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Point taken from both of you. Mattuc, I certainly wasn't trying to knock the 220 swift, thats why I led with it was a joy to shoot. For future reference should I have raised the barrel wear-out part as a question? Being a new/junior member I don't want to start right out stepping on toes, I'd rather save that till later. lol


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## Mattuk (Oct 16, 2010)

I don't have one so it makes no odds to me JLowe69. I was playing Devils Advocate but as Don said the average shooter shouldn't wear the barrel out just like that. I've had my .243 for 12 years and thats seen a round or two through it! The .220 swift is a super little round.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

I too am a fan of the .243 as I pointed out earlier, I was referring to the theory/rumor/fable, whatever you want to call it of 4000fps being some kind of magic cutoff point, before "excessive" wear occurs. Thanks for clearing up what you meant though. I already have a site for arguing/debating and would like to keep this one in my "for learning and making friends" category. I'm guessing from your signature that your .243 is a Remington, whats your preferred configuration/model?


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## bar-d (Feb 3, 2010)

220swift said:


> I've been reading this topic since it started and I feel like an outsider with the 220 Swift, however, I would not trade it for anything. Over 30 years old and just as deadly now as when I aquired it 26 years ago.


I have been looking for one for years. Thought I had found one at a pawn shop last year and as the guy behind the counter was reaching for it to hand it to me, the owner came in to take it off pawn.


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## Mattuk (Oct 16, 2010)

JLowe69 said:


> I too am a fan of the .243 as I pointed out earlier, I was referring to the theory/rumor/fable, whatever you want to call it of 4000fps being some kind of magic cutoff point, before "excessive" wear occurs. Thanks for clearing up what you meant though. I already have a site for arguing/debating and would like to keep this one in my "for learning and making friends" category. I'm guessing from your signature that your .243 is a Remington, whats your preferred configuration/model?


No its a CZBruno ZKK 601. I use Remington Core lokt 100gn btsp's in it.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Ok, Thanks just wondering.


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

Hi guys,

I do shoot between 200 and 300 rounds per year from my Swift (coyotes and p-dogs). I do not load at the top end. I keep the 50/53/55 grain bullets between 3650 and 3700 fsp. As YD said, I do pay very close attention to the barrel temp.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Does that mean you agree with the 4000fps theory, or is that what you get the best results from?


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

JLowe69 said:


> Does that mean you agree with the 4000fps theory, or is that what you get the best results from?


That's where I get the tightest groups. I've also found when I loaded over 3900fps, the bullet seems to pass through with less internal damage. Since I've tuned down I'm no longer following a blood trail


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## Mattuk (Oct 16, 2010)

220swift said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I do shoot between 200 and 300 rounds per year from my Swift (coyotes and p-dogs). I do not load at the top end. I keep the 50/53/55 grain bullets between 3650 and 3700 fsp. As YD said, I do pay very close attention to the barrel temp.


Where have all the photo's of these coyotes gone buddy!?


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

Mattuk said:


> Where have all the photo's of these coyotes gone buddy!?


I'll do better. I'm gearing up now to shoot videos of my hunts. What a challenge.








Here's some p-dogs.


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## lancet (Dec 8, 2011)

Honestly if you hunt where it is windy at all, and If you shoot long range at varmints like 300 yards, anything smaller than a 223 is useless. Another thing is the lighter bullets are faster, but they do not retain energy, and like I said wind drift is horrible.


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## lancet (Dec 8, 2011)

Honestly if you hunt where it is windy at all, and If you shoot long range at varmints like 300 yards, anything smaller than a 223 is useless. Another thing is the lighter bullets are faster, but they do not retain energy, and like I said wind drift is horrible.


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

A couple of pics of my field shooting bench with the swift. I use this bench mainly shooting p-dogs


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## bar-d (Feb 3, 2010)

Groovy!


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

220 swift, ok, thanks for answering. Like I said before I'm here to primarily gain as much knowledge as I can and hopefully gain a friend or two, even more would be better of course.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

SWEET 220


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## sos1inmesa (May 11, 2011)

I'm fairly new to long range shooting and I really dig my 22-250. I have a custom .308 and when shooting at the range I have to dial my scope 20 clicks up when moving from 100 yards to the 300 yard targets. My 22-250 needs absolutely no scope adjustments between these distances.

I haven't spent time at the range with the other rounds mentioned but would be curious to know if there is much bullet drop from 100 to 300 yards when using a .223.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

If you have a 200yd zero(which you should have) you'll be about 9" low at 300 IF youhave a muzzle velocity of 2600 and are shooting a 168gr match bullet. That means you'l be approx. 2.5" high at 100yds. Go to the website of the ammo maker you are using and they normally have a ballistic calculator or trajectory chart. They'll give you winddrift info too.
A 223 at 3100fps will drop to 8"low at 300 with a 200yd zero. That means you'll be 1.6" high at 100 this is using a 55grspitzer type bullet.

Disclaimer: Any and all misses using this info are operator error .....On the contrary any kills are attributable to and a direct result of the expert information contained above.....


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## hobiecole (Nov 19, 2011)

youngdon said:


> Welcome to the forum Ward.
> 
> I would buy a 22-250 if I were buying a new rifle mostly because I have never owned one and I already own two of the other three. The 222 is not an option in my book. (sorry to those of you who have them) I think that it is a dying round or at least fading. I don't see much of them out here in the west. I have a 243 and love it, it shoots like a laser. The .223 is the least expensive round to shoot if you don't reload. The .204 is an awesome round and again shoots like a laser, but energy drops off fast past 300yds., which may be a non issue to a lot of hunters. It is fine on Prairie dogs to past 400 but lacks the energy to kill a coyote sized animal (cleanly) at those extended ranges IMO.
> Now if I were starting all over I would buy the .243(especially if I need a deer rifle too) then perhaps a 22-250 or a 220Swift, probably in a Ruger#1(just because I love the look and feel). I am warming to my .223 (AR) and like the .204... alot.
> ...


totally agree


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## DJTHED (Feb 1, 2010)

if i did not win a 204 in a raffle I would buy.....a 204. Flat, accurate, fast.....and did I mention it was fast!!!! Hornady factory ammo rules.


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## baconsprout (Jan 19, 2012)

I like 22.250 so that they dont bleed out so much to keep the weight


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Welcome to the forum baconsprout.


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

Welcome to the PT baconsprout


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## Sh1pper (Feb 8, 2012)

22-250 is my choice
Just saying the other day I was asked why I carry a 45 on my hip???
I answered because they don't make a 46...!!!
Sh1pper


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## IamI (Jan 3, 2012)

well while i looking around at the site i got my vote in and yaits the 223
and realy like the round it has hit everything i put it at thats remington ammo still trying others with no disappointments yet so far its just for coyote.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Welcome to the forum IamI.


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## Antlerz22 (Apr 18, 2011)

welcome laml, enjoy Pt and snoop around!


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## HeadShot80 (Feb 10, 2012)

17hmr


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

Welcome to PT HeadShot80


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## Mattuk (Oct 16, 2010)

Welcome to PT HeadShot80.


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## pc3 (Feb 15, 2012)

I have and use (for foxes) a .223AI with a 1-7 twist barrelI shoot the Hornady 75 gr A-Maxes and they realy do work and buck the wind well.


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

Welcome to the PT forum IamI.


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## Not_Fur_Friendly (Feb 23, 2012)

I would have put .50 BMG but it wasnt on the list.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Welcome to the forum Not_Fur_Friendly


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

Welcome to PT Not_Fur_Friendly


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## Not_Fur_Friendly (Feb 23, 2012)

Thanks for the welcome.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Our pleasure...Enjoy the site.


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

I like the .243. I shoot with 80g Hornady GMX bullets. They work well with coyote. If they are inside 100 yards it can be tough on the fur though. Pretty windy where I hunt so I wanted something a little heavier.


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## IamI (Jan 3, 2012)

well i got a 223, i like the flat shoting and windage easy to remember,
plenty of bullets to chose from with nice volocity.


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## CFinch (Nov 20, 2011)

I am no where near a master of ballistics, but I have a question for the knowledgeable Elders of PT. Would any of the military 5.56 rounds be more effective than the .223 for any reasons? I thought they were a hotter round. There are also many different bullet types to choose from.

I keep 3 mags of "Green Tip" loaded because Zombies or roving hordes of cannibalistic post apocalyptic city goers are more of a concern than Yotes in my area.

The surplus military rounds are also a heck of a lot cheaper than the high end .223 varmint rounds.Never used the 5.56 on anything living yet, or undead so I'm not sure.

Hope this isn't too far off topics.

Thanks, Chris.


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## bar-d (Feb 3, 2010)

From what I know, the military version 5.56 Nato runs around 3300 FPS for the 55 grain and approximately 3000 FPS in the 62 grain. When you get on up to the 77 grain, around 2800, and so on. I am assuming your rifle is chambered for 5.56x45. When you say effective, are you are talking about terminal ballistics for hunting? Most mil spec ammo is FMJ which IMO is not a good hunting round. Most of the time the bullet would pass through on say a coyote without creating much of a wound channel. For practice shooting any bullet type would work. Occasionally, I will pick up a few boxes of Russian made Wolf or Tula so if I have the urge for a 20 round mag dump, it costs me about 5 dollars instead of 15. I reload all my other rounds for hunting. Having said all that, I am putting in a supply of military ammo just for my peace of mind.


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## ouhunter (Mar 2, 2012)

I like the .243 because I can reload for Varmints as well as for Whitetail Deer.


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## Varmintnv (Aug 17, 2012)

I currently have a .223AI, 2 .22-250's(a Ruger M77 and a Kimber 84M), a .243AI, and a .257AI. My favorite is the .243AI loaded up with 70gr Ballistic Tips. Coyotes go down like they were struck with Thor's hammer!! No runners, no spinners, not even a tail twitch! But if your saving hides, you need to look elsewhere!! If I'm looking to save a hide or two I pack the .223AI with 53gr Hornady HP's, or a .22-250 with either 50gr NBT's or 52gr Speer HP's.


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## alaskawilliam (Sep 25, 2012)

I would choose a 22 hornet. With ~ 12 grains of powder and 36 grain v-max bullet you are at 3000 fps.
Fur buyers call alaska coyotes "snowballs" they tell me $80.00 each. I've seen trappers with 110 Martins, 6 lynx, 4 wolves all on the table for the international fur buyer. So I want a fur friendly rifle.


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## Scotty D. (Feb 23, 2012)

I'd buy the 22-250 cuz it's the only varmint caliber that I don't have yet.... My .204 ballistics are better than the 250 out to 500 yds & my .243 outdoes the 250 past 500yds.... But I may as well complete the "varmint ensemble".


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## hassell (Feb 9, 2010)

alaskawilliam said:


> I would choose a 22 hornet. With ~ 12 grains of powder and 36 grain v-max bullet you are at 3000 fps.
> Fur buyers call alaska coyotes "snowballs" they tell me $80.00 each. I've seen trappers with 110 Martins, 6 lynx, 4 wolves all on the table for the international fur buyer. So I want a fur friendly rifle.


These are all animals caught in traps?? Just asking!!!!!


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## Rich Cronk (Feb 24, 2010)

Helmet_S said:


> I totally agree with what Chris is saying about needing a bigger gun to compensate. I use a 204 and would put it up against any 223, 22-250, and 243 out there on a coyote and smaller. heck I would have no problem going after a hog with one. The darn round is deadly accurate and a behind the ear shot on a hog would be a no brainer (pund intended). I am also a firm beleiver in not taking an animal unless I know that I am going to put it down as quickly and painless as possible. I don't hesitate to take a shot out to 300 yards and past that I just have to slow down and think. I also love single shot rifles becuase they help teach you to be picky and choose your shots.
> 
> Not to stir the pot. it is just my opinion. Remember Opinions are like Buttholes, Everyone has one and they all spew crap.


-----------------------------------------
Shoot a few more at longer ranges and windy weather like you will find in Wyoming or north Texas, and I think you may well change your mind.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

*http://gundata.org/b...tic-calculator/*

Compare for yourself. I compared the 40gr V-max from a 204 and a 55grV-max from a 223 with a 15mph wind at 90*. I've long been a fan of the 204 (before they were cool... lol) and speed coupled with a small profile certainly do wonders in the wind.


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## Rich Cronk (Feb 24, 2010)

youngdon said:


> *http://gundata.org/b...tic-calculator/*
> 
> Compare for yourself. I compared the 40gr V-max from a 204 and a 55grV-max from a 223 with a 15mph wind at 90*. I've long been a fan of the 204 (before they were cool... lol) and speed coupled with a small profile certainly do wonders in the wind.


-------------------------------------------
Yes, I know. I once held for rib cage of a 240 yard coyote and blew the top of his head completely off. This was with a .22-.250 and 55 grain bullet in a north-central Nebraska cross-wind. To each his own, but I left the little .224 caliber rifles many years ago in favor of the whomp and stomp of the .25-06. Not many runners with that stomper.


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## nashoba54 (Sep 16, 2012)

The caliber I would choose would be dependent on whether I was hunting for fun or fur. If for fur, then probably a 223, or 22/250. For fun anything you like as long as it is accurate and will put down a coyote humanely. For me that would be a 6mm Rem if I handloaded for it or a .243 Win if I did not want to load for it. I've killed them with .22lr, .223, 22/250, .243, 6mm Rem, 6,5x55, .270 Win, .308 Win, 8x57mm Mauser, .50 & .54 ML, 20ga & 12ga. As long as I did my part and didn't try to stretch the barrel past the capabilities of the weapon and my own limitations - I had no problems. I have to agree with you, Rich about the wind. I hunted a lot in NW & North Central Oklahoma and the way the wind out there can blow a bullet around has to be seen to be belived. I purposely left out some fine wildcats just because of ammo availablity.


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## Rich Cronk (Feb 24, 2010)

nashoba54 said:


> The caliber I would choose would be dependent on whether I was hunting for fun or fur. If for fur, then probably a 223, or 22/250. For fun anything you like as long as it is accurate and will put down a coyote humanely. For me that would be a 6mm Rem if I handloaded for it or a .243 Win if I did not want to load for it. I've killed them with .22lr, .223, 22/250, .243, 6mm Rem, 6,5x55, .270 Win, .308 Win, 8x57mm Mauser, .50 & .54 ML, 20ga & 12ga. As long as I did my part and didn't try to stretch the barrel past the capabilities of the weapon and my own limitations - I had no problems. I have to agree with you, Rich about the wind. I hunted a lot in NW & North Central Oklahoma and the way the wind out there can blow a bullet around has to be seen to be belived. I purposely left out some fine wildcats just because of ammo availablity.


-------------------------------
You are correct sir. Now regarding the "fun or fur" point, I feel the need to point out that it is the bullet choice rather than the caliber that is main cause of bullet splash on the surface as well as large exit wounds that cause fur damage. Even the .25-06 and .257 Ackley rifles can be fur friendly when correct bullet is chosen. A good strongly constructed bullet must be used for coyotes when shooting these larger caliber rifles. The best choice for the mighty .25's has been the 100 grain Sierra "pro hunter" bullet. Other good fur friendly bullets in this caliber are the 90 grain Sierra "Game King", and the 100 grain Nosler "ballistic tip". The lighter "varmint" bullets such as the 85 grain Nosler ballistic tips cause football sized exits. Even in the tiny .224 caliber rifles, the little Blitz Kings, SX, and other varmint bullets are causing surface splash on shoulder blades. I must admit that I was shooting one of the first Ruger mini-14 rifles with the faster twist rate when I saw the worst surface splash on shoulder of a coyote. I believe that the fast twist barrel was the main culprit there. Does anyone here know what the twist rate of those early mini 14's was? one in 7" maybe? I believe they had the faster twist for purpose of shooting the heavier 60 grain bullets.


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## poe (Feb 10, 2010)

This may be a old thread but I thought I would add onto it again. First time I posted on this my vote was for the 22-250 and it still might be but after having a .223 for almost a year now I would have to say that I am also a big fan of the .223. Yes the 250 shoots flatter but if you put some time behind the trigger of a .223 you can still drop coyotes out to a very long range. So if I was going to recite I would say either .223 .204 or 22-250 as long as it comes in a good shooting gun. Shot placement is key so pick a cal that you like and shoot it as much as you possibly can.


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## christopher (Oct 10, 2010)

my vote also goes to the 25-06


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## 35bore (Nov 24, 2012)

My Bushmaster Varmiter comes in Tuesday, 223. I own a DPMS Orical (accuracy is fine for what I bought it for) and a Remington 700 in 6mm rem. (beyond accurate)(just wasn't sure about pelt damage) currently. Since I decided to take up Yote hunting I thought a little added accuracy with the Bushmaster would increase confidence and give me a little more distance.

I have noticed a few of you guys use the 243 though.... What is pelt damage like using them?


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

With the proper bullet selection and shot placement not to bad, I've had more no exits than exits, However if you hit bone at close range it's all over...Literally. It is not at all friendly to fox.
If I was saving fur I'd shoot the 204, 22-250 or 223 in that order before the 243 though.


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## Coalforge (Nov 30, 2012)

I use a .223 Savage bolt action bull barrel now. It was available at a price I could afford and does the job that I need done. I would look seriously at a .243 if I was buying another gun but I would not replace what I have.


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## alclark2 (Dec 6, 2012)

My buddy showed me a 22-250 shot yote with a terrible exit. Do you think it was just the ammo he was using? I'm not sure what he was using but that turned me off of the 22-250. I've been looking for a Mossberg MVP in .223 but am starting to consider other options after reading this WHOLE thread. Yeah, I have a lot of time to kill at work. I'm not interested in a .243 really because we can't rifle hunt deer in Indiana. The .243 doesn't seem like a bad option however. I'm looking for a cheaper ammo alternative to go out and shoot so I'm leaning towards the .223 still.


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## Jason814 (Dec 19, 2012)

.243 . i just loaded two boxes of shells. 58 grain v-max, 40 grains IMR 4064, 3,400 FPS. Ballistic info from Hornady tells me that 1.1" high at 100 yards will be zero at 200 and -6.2" at 300. Thats perfect for the areas i coyote hunt here in central PA. I chose to stick with the .243 because i already have the gun and dies to reload. If i had to start with nothing and buy all new (gun, dies and stuff) i would probably go with the .223, just because of the variety of ammo available, and if i get lazy and dont want to load, the shells are relatively cheap.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Welcome to the forum Jason814


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## fr3db3ar (Aug 6, 2011)

Welcome aboard Jason


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## Rich Cronk (Feb 24, 2010)

alclark2 said:


> My buddy showed me a 22-250 shot yote with a terrible exit. Do you think it was just the ammo he was using? I'm not sure what he was using but that turned me off of the 22-250. I've been looking for a Mossberg MVP in .223 but am starting to consider other options after reading this WHOLE thread. Yeah, I have a lot of time to kill at work. I'm not interested in a .243 really because we can't rifle hunt deer in Indiana. The .243 doesn't seem like a bad option however. I'm looking for a cheaper ammo alternative to go out and shoot so I'm leaning towards the .223 still.


It was the frangible bullet he chose to use. For coyotes with a .22-.250 a good strong bullet is best in my opinion. A 55 grain Sierra "Game King" would be one good choice,


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## mohunter32 (Jan 8, 2013)

Right now I hunt with a .243 using Hornaday ammow with the 58 gr VMax. If I was to buy another gun just for predators, I think it would be a 22-250. The few 22-250 rifles I've shot have been very accurate and a joy to shoot.


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## Dialed_In (Jan 5, 2013)

You sure know how to start a fellow slobbering! I own 3 guns in .223, one in -250 and traded off a .243 ten years ago. The .243 was an excellent varmint round; a battery of 223, 22-250 and 243 give a varminter all the options he needs from close shots to 500 yards in a 15mph wind! Coyotes???? I use a Ruger .223 with 55g Noslers over H335 or CFE 223 clocking 3100 - 3200 fps. Glass is an 8-32 x 44 with Mildot. Of course I'm not worried about pelts. For my hog hunting, I prefer a 308 with 150 grain Hornady Interlocks running about 2700. I ignite them from a Savage Precision Carbine (20" heavy bbl) with Accu-trigger and Accu-stock. The trigger is set at 2.5 lbs and is mounted with a 6 - 24x 44 scope with Mildot and zeroed for 200 yds. I've killed hogs with the .223 but they were under 200 lbs and all were hit with neck shots. Over 200 # hogs you need 60 grain Partitions at 3000 fps and hit them with a second shot in the lungs after the neck shot just in case...... don't ask me why! Oh, back to the question..... I'd get another .243 probably in Savage with the Accu trigger and stock in 22 - 24 inch barrel.


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## tdzimmermanjr (Feb 4, 2013)

Have to give my second choice...the 223 as the 17 hmr isn't an option on this poll


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## poe (Feb 10, 2010)

I have .243 22-250 and .223 I mainly only use the .223 now and it is plenty of gun for coyotes.


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## Savage250 (May 10, 2012)

I'd have to go with a 243 since I already have a 223 and a 22-250. I also use my 250 for deer hunting and have dropped 7 deer in the last 2 seasons with only one deer running about 30yrds. A 243 in a Remington 700 or Savage Axis will be my next rifle I buy mainly for bigger game, I'm not real worried about the pelts on coyotes just like putting them down. I gave up trying to keep the pelts after switching rounds on my 250 from a 55gr to 50gr vmax, I'm still blowing massive holes in them. I love my 250 it's accurate as hell and I have a local guy that has been making me handloads in a 50gr vmax for next to nothing and my savage really likes them.


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## sneakygroundbuzzard (Nov 1, 2012)

i voted for the .223

that is why i bought my AR15 in that caliber,its my new yote gun


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## WarrenCoWarrior (Feb 24, 2013)

I shoot a T/C Venture in a .243. I have the Nikon Buckmasters scope on it with the added yardage dots to compensate for bullet drop. I LOVE IT!!!


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## huntinguglydogs (Mar 6, 2013)

i've got a 223 ,243,25-06,and a 308 with 110 v maxs like them all voted 243 because its easy to find factory rounds for suitable for deer to coyotes if you dont roll your own


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## silverfoxhunter (Dec 1, 2012)

Very late in this discussion to vote my opinion, but now that I've read every one (every single one) else's verdict I'm still happy to say my second option from that list would be the 222. I'm a fan of unpopular rounds, I like to take the road less traveled. I have a .243 and a .223. I like both rounds. I shot a caribou with my .243 but nothing yet with the .223 except targets. I'm still waiting for my custom .220 swift to be finished. I'll be sending more money to have that done very soon. In the mean time I'll be looking for predators this winter with my mini-14 ranch rifle. P.S. I highly dis-advise any AR platforms where I hunt. They tend to jam up and not funcion properly in the very dry -30 weather. Next question! )


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## finstr (Jan 6, 2013)

I use a .243 exclusively for predators but the poll question was "If you were buying a new gun? What caliber would you buy?"

Because the cal I want wasn't on the list I picked .243

But my next predator rifle will be a 6.5/284 ( we don't save hides here, they all got mange )

I had a 6mm/284 for awhile that I built on a Vanguard platform and it was flat out awesome! Had a point blank range of 365yds on coyote...... a 70gr SMK goin 4100fps will do that... :smile2:


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## Rich Cronk (Feb 24, 2010)

Although my favorite coyote rifle is a .257 Roberts Improved, I strongly believe that a .243 would fill the bill just as well. Choosing the right bullet is very important if you intend to save the fur. I am still seeing post's by coyote callers who are using prairie dog bullets for coyotes, and this is asking for a lot of fur damage.


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## Rich Cronk (Feb 24, 2010)

finstr said:


> I use a .243 exclusively for predators but the poll question was "If you were buying a new gun? What caliber would you buy?"
> 
> Because the cal I want wasn't on the list I picked .243
> 
> ...


The 6.5/.284 is a good choice if you are re-chambering a short action rifle. If you have a long action rifle, I believe that a 6.5/06 would give the same performance, and .30/06 cases are much more available for resizing.


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

Rich Cronk said:


> Although my favorite coyote rifle is a .257 Roberts Improved, I strongly believe that a .243 would fill the bill just as well. Choosing the right bullet is very important if you intend to save the fur. I am still seeing post's by coyote callers who are using prairie dog bullets for coyotes, and this is asking for a lot of fur damage.


Rich, what do you consider a prairie dog bullet?


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## Rich Cronk (Feb 24, 2010)

220swift said:


> Rich, what do you consider a prairie dog bullet?


Well, any bullet labeled "SX", "varmint", or "varmint Grenade" for starters. These bullets are designed to fragment quickly, and often leave large and ugly wounds on entry side of a coyote. An 85 grain Nosler ballistic tip fired at .25-06 velocities will often blow football sized holes upon exit. There are more, but I think you get my drift.


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## stevec (Jul 9, 2013)

I love them all but for coyote in central Oklahoma I like the 223 for the availability of different loads. Most of my shots are between 6 and 40 yds. If I lived out west where longer shots are more often, I would go 22-250.

Most of my rifles are wildcats not because I think they are any better but because I like to tinker.

Steve


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## CoyoteCaller93 (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm just jealous because there aren't prairie dogs out here to shoot! I like my 204, 22-250's, 243, 257 Weatherby Mag, 270 Win, 270 Weatherby Mag and will probably love my 240 Weatherby as well as my custom 6mm I'm having built


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

Nice! I would like to see pictures of the 6mm when it's done.


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## A10hunter (Jan 30, 2013)

Helmet_S said:


> Not to stir the pot. it is just my opinion. Remember Opinions are like Buttholes, Everyone has one and they all spew crap.


Sometimes they spew out corn as well, :roflmao:


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## CoyoteCaller93 (Aug 12, 2011)

I will post pics of the 6mm Rem when I get it built. Waiting to get the final cost so I can give them the green light to build it. I want to make sure I have enough money for it along with scope, mounts and rings.


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

understand that!


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

I'd take a look at your other rigs in the mean time though.

What twist rate are you looking to put on your 6mm ?


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## CoyoteCaller93 (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm still debating on twist rate.


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## CoyoteCaller93 (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm thinking 12 or maybe a 14


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## A10hunter (Jan 30, 2013)

I just saw this post yesterday, but like others have said, they are all good guns to kills coyotes with. I had built an AR a few years back because I always like them and wanted one while I could get it done before "Big Brother" tried to stop me. But, it was not primarily for predator hunting when I initially wanted it. Now, it is my primary predator rifle because I want to save fur if it is in good shape, and my other rifle (other than 22 Lr) is a 270 win for medium and big game, unless I want to give a coyote non-fur friendly medicine. If I didn't have the 223 first, then I would go with a 22-250 (which I will be buying next year), and I want a 243 after that. I don't need the 243 for bigger game because I like my 270 for that. Since I reload, I also like that I can use the same bullet for my 223 and 22-250 if I want. But, maybe I might change my mind when its time to buy and go with a 243 before the 22-250. If you have enough money, then get em' all.


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## wyobruce (Sep 10, 2013)

Since i currently shoot a Sako .222 Remington and a 12 ga with HeavyShot Dead Coyote, a NEW gun would be a Benelli MR1 in .243


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## Tracker401 (May 4, 2012)

Probably would get .223. Right now ammo is easier to get than components. My personal favorite is a 6x45, but is a handload only proposition.
YMMV
Tracker401


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## fr3db3ar (Aug 6, 2011)

I might have to go with the LR308 this year. Last 3 shots of the day today (haven't shot all summer and put 10 through it at 100 & 200 before this) broke 2 of 3 pigeons @ 400


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## A10hunter (Jan 30, 2013)

Nice shooting Fred. Is that a DPMS?


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## sneakygroundbuzzard (Nov 1, 2012)

nice shooting fred

nice having a gun that one is confident with

seems like once you get to know a weapon,you dont have to spend alot of time at the range to stay effective with it


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## fr3db3ar (Aug 6, 2011)

Yes, it's a DPMS Oracle. I have to say I'm pretty pleased with it. I'm shooting pulled 175 SMK that I load. It's not a flat shooter at high speed but it seems to be pretty accurate. This is from the bench of course but I hope to get sub MOA from the bench so that I might get 2 to 3 MOA in the field. I figure after shooting it on the bench the rest is all up to me.

The Axis kicks a lot harder than the DPMS  I must be getting old and sensative


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## A10hunter (Jan 30, 2013)

I thought the Oracle was just a 5.56 model, good to know its chambered in 308. Your right on the money about sub MOA of a solid bench rest as opposed to something less in the field, and seeing an above MOA difference.


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## tnt1960 (Jun 6, 2011)

youngdon said:


> Welcome to the forum tnt1960. What do you shoot now ?


Well, I sold my 30-06 to a friend of mine, and just picked up a Savage Axis XP in .223 topped with a Bushnell 3-9X scope. I absolutely love it! It's so much fun to shoot, and it's a tack driver. I definitely made the right choice! LOL Right now I've been shooting 55 grain Wolf FMJ bullets with it. They're accurate and affordable. I picked up 500 rounds for $150.

Savage Axis XP .223 Rem. Bushnell 3-9X scope


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

You made a good choice IMO on the Savage, they tend to be good shooters and are affordable. You might want to check your local regulations before hunting with the FMJ ammo though, many states prohibit its use for hunting some or all game/furbearers


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## devildogandboy (May 12, 2014)

222 for me just because I don't have one now. had one many yrs ago in a Remington that was a fine shooter and lots of fun. for the shooting I have done, most of it is never over 200 yds if that. where I go it's mostly rolling terrain and can't see too far to begin with.

Bruce


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## Beta (Mar 3, 2014)

Trapping and small game.. the .17 HMR!


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## dwtrees (Mar 5, 2012)

22-250 here. 100 yard group measure .300" (4 shots).


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## best defense (Mar 15, 2010)

I actually have 3 243 rifles.

All of mine are real good out to beyond 300 yards from the bench and with the right bullet, 400 is not out of the question.

The 243 is probably not going to shoot quite as fast as a 22-250 which would be my second choice, and I already have more than one 223 which I don't use much at all.

I prefer older style bolt action rifles for hunting. I understand many people like the AR platform, and I don't have any problem with that, especially if you want a semi-auto. I just feel that for me the bolt guns are more comfortable to shoot, and I can still use the 243 for deer if I want to. Yeah, you can shoot a deer with an AR as well. I just don't care to.


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## Glen (Jan 3, 2013)

I would pick the .22.250 Imp. for Coyote work. Especially in long distance open ground.


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## Embarger (Sep 30, 2016)

I've been pretty happy with my 250 and when I shoot the barrel out I'll go to the 250 AI. Makes for one mean 800 yard gun.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## alphasig (Aug 14, 2016)

My favorite is my 6.8 spc









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

nice shooter alphasig.......


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## hassell (Feb 9, 2010)

Real nice.


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## FoxSlayer (Dec 16, 2016)

.223


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Is it the caliber or hydrostatic shock?

I can shoot a 10lb Canada goose using 12 gauge at 25 yards with steel #4's at ~1600 fps and generally it will keep on flying (unless its a pellet to the head) But if I shoot that same goose with BBB's at ~1600 fps it will crumble.

Doesn't the same apply to southern predators and northern predators regarding how much hydrostatic shock a bullet can employ and not so much caliber unless that caliber has overlamping weights?

Example: from experience I can say, a .17 hmr on AZ coyotes at 30 yards it will stop within 20-40 yards of being shot and sometimes immediately.

But if I shoot a Neb coyote at 30 yards with the same.17 (out of a trap) it will keep going.

Why? that little bullet slows down so much from the heavier fur the ergs of energy transferred to the body is nominal to stop it. Yes it probably will die later from hemorrhage but not from hydrostatic shock.


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## Antlerz22 (Apr 18, 2011)

IMO hydrostatic, a bullet that splashes hide or say the shoulder--just transferred energy on the outer body, vs delivering that energy internally. So its also bullet design, taking into account the actual caliber, velocity, and bullet placement, and all in relation to each other properly.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Caliber, bullet style, and hydrostatic shock go hand in hand in many cases. A large bullet has more area to leave more of its energy behind, but if that bullet passes through completely it has not left all of its energy behind. Bullet placement also plays a large part in that a hit in the animals muscle may tear flesh it doesn't transfer energy the way a bullet delivered to the wet (read intestinal) area will. Not to go on but a fmj that passes through completely with no expansion will result in a dead body if you hit the heart and or lungs.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

3:55 AM what the heck DON???

Knowing this time of the morning well just like all aging men in the world do, I can summize you were laying in bed awoken by a nearly full bladder. Not wanting to throw back the covers until the bladder was full, you finally made your move. You entered the room up popped the throne lid and immediately came *fully pressurized flow attacking the traquel liquid below. *

But now your cranial synapsis was fully awakened and this very thread which you perused just 15 hours later implanted itself on your radar screen.

You grabbed a towel to wipe your hands and the faucet and soap remained idle. Carrying the towel you dashed to the PC and started writing you brief dissertation about " hydrostatic shock! " all because you made a clean kill in the middle of the toilet bowl! Nicely Done, Very Nicely Done


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## Mo Mo (Sep 16, 2016)

Bullet construction, weight and velocity are what does the killing. All bullets deliver hydro-static shock to a target. Bullets that are high expansion release most energy once the intended target is hit, thus making shot placement very crucial. Bullets such as partition that retain their shape and weight give the shooter a little leeway as the bullet will penetrate deeper, but bullet placement is still crucial. FMJ's that do not offer much in the expansion area, need to be placed exactly where they need to be because they will kill only by cavitation. Cavitation is directly correlated to bullet diameter and velocity A large caliber bullet moving at a fast speed will have more cavitation than small caliber bullet moving at a fast speed. Weight plays a factor in all of this. Energy from the weighted projectile is transferred to the target. So in essence, the more weight you have, the more energy is given to the target upon impact at the optimal range for that projectile. Which brings in effective ranges for projectiles. A projectile may be able to punch paper over 500 yards, but what is the projectiles ability at that range. The bullet may or may not function correctly at extended ranges. Once a projectile travels a certain distance, not only is the round slower in speed, but has begun to destabilize depending on the projectiles construction. Most of this info can be found on a manufacturers website that will give you an SD and a BC. The higher the BC, the better the performance at extended ranges. Lets say that a shooter wanted to only engage targets out to 200 yards. The long range performance of a projectile is not as crucial, therefore, the shooter has the ability to choose a high expansion round such as a Vmax because the shorter range means that the projectile will not slow down exponentially when impacting the target. Thus, the light, fast and highly expansive round still carries enough KE to expand and deliver a fatal shot as long as shot placement is still good. No matter the type of ammo being used, shot placement is everything. I am not a fan of using FMJ's for hunting as I have seen my share of critters take a hit and run as the bullet passed through. For instance, I shot a coyote with a 55gr, 5.56 at 115 yards (verified by Fishshoot), in the head. Frontal shot just above left eye. The FMJ had enough energy to pass through the skull, travel the entire length through the body and exited out the hind quarter of the animal. Sure it was an instantaneous kill. But what if my shot placement wasn't correct. That could have been a wounded animal. The best advice that I can give anyone is use bullets that are made for hunting such as expansion, hollow point or soft point ammunition. FMJ's are made for the battlefield and the Geneva Convention, and if it wasn't for the GC, the military would be using better ammo than FMJ's that would guarantee a first hit kill.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

TheDuckMaster said:


> 3:55 AM what the heck DON???
> 
> Knowing this time of the morning well just like all aging men in the world do, I can summize you were laying in bed awoken by a nearly full bladder. Not wanting to throw back the covers until the bladder was full, you finally made your move. You entered the room up popped the throne lid and immediately came *fully pressurized flow attacking the traquel liquid below. *
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to hear you have those issues Larry. I've been lucky enough to have dodged that bullet.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Mo Mo said:


> Bullet construction, weight and velocity are what does the killing. All bullets deliver hydro-static shock to a target. Bullets that are high expansion release most energy once the intended target is hit, thus making shot placement very crucial. Bullets such as partition that retain their shape and weight give the shooter a little leeway as the bullet will penetrate deeper, but bullet placement is still crucial. FMJ's that do not offer much in the expansion area, need to be placed exactly where they need to be because they will kill only by cavitation. Cavitation is directly correlated to bullet diameter and velocity A large caliber bullet moving at a fast speed will have more cavitation than small caliber bullet moving at a fast speed. Weight plays a factor in all of this. Energy from the weighted projectile is transferred to the target. So in essence, the more weight you have, the more energy is given to the target upon impact at the optimal range for that projectile. Which brings in effective ranges for projectiles. A projectile may be able to punch paper over 500 yards, but what is the projectiles ability at that range. The bullet may or may not function correctly at extended ranges. Once a projectile travels a certain distance, not only is the round slower in speed, but has begun to destabilize depending on the projectiles construction. Most of this info can be found on a manufacturers website that will give you an SD and a BC. The higher the BC, the better the performance at extended ranges. Lets say that a shooter wanted to only engage targets out to 200 yards. The long range performance of a projectile is not as crucial, therefore, the shooter has the ability to choose a high expansion round such as a Vmax because the shorter range means that the projectile will not slow down exponentially when impacting the target. Thus, the light, fast and highly expansive round still carries enough KE to expand and deliver a fatal shot as long as shot placement is still good. No matter the type of ammo being used, shot placement is everything. I am not a fan of using FMJ's for hunting as I have seen my share of critters take a hit and run as the bullet passed through. For instance, I shot a coyote with a 55gr, 5.56 at 115 yards (verified by Fishshoot), in the head. Frontal shot just above left eye. The FMJ had enough energy to pass through the skull, travel the entire length through the body and exited out the hind quarter of the animal. Sure it was an instantaneous kill. But what if my shot placement wasn't correct. That could have been a wounded animal. The best advice that I can give anyone is use bullets that are made for hunting such as expansion, hollow point or soft point ammunition. FMJ's are made for the battlefield and the Geneva Convention, and if it wasn't for the GC, the military would be using better ammo than FMJ's that would guarantee a first hit kill.


Well stated. Most states have game laws that make using FMJ's illegal for hunting. For those who don't know.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

youngdon said:


> I'm sorry to hear you have those issues Larry. I've been lucky enough to have dodged that bullet.


Just keep lying to yourself old man


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## MidMoTrapper (Feb 14, 2017)

I would have to go with the .243, my second choice is 22-250


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## Viper (Oct 1, 2016)

6.5 Grendel is what I am putting together right now.


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## SWAMPBUCK10PT (Apr 5, 2010)

*222 rem*


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## 503MD (Jan 23, 2017)

How long are shots and on what platform? .223 for Ar15 just because you don’t list a 22 Nosler. Lol


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