# AR 15 Question



## BondCoCoyote

I have been wanting to put an AR 15 together for a while and thanks to some of the post on here I found the lower receiver that I'm going to use. (New Frontier Arms) But I'm beating my brains out trying to figure out which upper assembly to use. I browsed thru some of the older post but came up with a blank. I want a 5.56/223 but there are so many different ones to choose from. I don't know a lot about this type of weapon other than looking and reading about them quite a bit. I want to set it up for coyote hunting, Scope, full camo and so on. So I figured to ask some of the most knowledgeable guys I know. (that's you guys)

Oh, and don't want to spend a fortune on it. And its not because of my wife either. (cough cough)

Any suggestions?


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## Scotty D.

Did you try Model 1 Sales...Just one thought...

My next barrel is gonna be a Black Rain Ordnance w/ polygonal rifling--there's another thought...You'll get lots of different answers to this.......


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## youngdon

Check out http://www.jsesurplus.com/completefactoryar15upper.aspx

No matter who you buy from be sure it's what you want, most guys start out wanting a bull barrel, but most end up not wanting to carry it. I think you'll find that the choices are endless and truthfully a lot of ot is just more weight.


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## fr3db3ar

In a decent upper a 16" is plenty and won't limit it's accuracy at all. Like Don said, unless you're set on a bull barrel I'd recommend against it for carrying.


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## BondCoCoyote

Those are both good site's. Do you guys know how much better a chrome lined barrel is?

I wasn't really looking for a bull barrel. I know a couple guys that have them on other rifles and they weigh a ton.


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## BondCoCoyote

What do you guys think of this set up?

http://www.model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=209


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## youngdon

I prefer a flat top (A3) and a scope or even back up iron sights (BUIS) to a carry handle type and that will add 75.But as far as getting a usable AR15 I think it will certainly suffice.


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## youngdon

[sup]What happened to the New frontier ?[/sup]


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## BondCoCoyote

youngdon said:


> I prefer a flat top (A3) and a scope or even back up iron sights (BUIS) to a carry handle type and that will add 75.But as far as getting a usable AR15 I think it will certainly suffice.


Thanks for pointing out the carry handle I didn't even notice that. I just ordered the lower from New Frontier today. Still looking for the rest of it. I did see an upper on the new frontier site that looked pretty good.

Chrome lined barrel or not? any thoughts?


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## knapper

Chrome lined barrel will not last as long as a SS one but from what I have read they are less likely to be scarched or damaged from cleaning. Any one else heard that?


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## Scotty D.

I love my ER Shaw barrel..AR came w/ the bull 20" so, like Don said, it's heavy.....


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## youngdon

Chrome lining is supposed to make the barrel smoother..the chrome fills in the tool mark scratches and will make it easier to clean. My steel barreled 16 does not have it, my other is stainless so it can't be.

Also be advised that the upper halves from model1 do not include the bolt carrier group.

Look for the word "complete" when looking for an upper to put on a lower that is ready to fire.


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## hoovertx4

I recently bought a dpms sportical, and I am realy suprised at how accurte it is, I am shooting 1/2" groups at 100 yards. I paid a little over $600 for the complete rifle.


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## bones44

Mine is chromoly on my R-15. Don't know if anyone else offers that in a barrel. Just a thought. Sounds like fun building !


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## BondCoCoyote

youngdon said:


> Chrome lining is supposed to make the barrel smoother..the chrome fills in the tool mark scratches and will make it easier to clean. My steel barreled 16 does not have it, my other is stainless so it can't be.
> 
> Also be advised that the upper halves from model1 do not include the bolt carrier group.
> 
> Look for the word "complete" when looking for an upper to put on a lower that is ready to fire.


I started to notice that some do not come with charging handle and the BCG, thanks for pointing that out Don. Maybe I should just have you order the upper for me. (lol)

Thanks for all the info guys. If you have any more suggestions I'll be sure to listen.

I ordered the Lower yesterday and today they sent me an email saying it was shipped.The website said they were back ordered, and I know Chris Miller posted about that a few days ago, so if anybody else is looking to order one might be good to do it now.


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## fr3db3ar

Everything I've read says the chrome lined is not as accurate but easier to clean.

I love the way my R-15 shoots. Hopefully it doesn't miss animals


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## BondCoCoyote

hoovertx4 said:


> I recently bought a dpms sportical, and I am realy suprised at how accurte it is, I am shooting 1/2" groups at 100 yards. I paid a little over $600 for the complete rifle.


Did you build it or buy it assembled?


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## wilded

_Here is an article I wrote on putting them together. I have a DPMS and a Model 1 sales upper and they are about equal in accuracy and quality. I have the 16 inch SS bull barrels so they are not light but shoot lights out. ET_

_http://wildedtx.blog...lack-rifle.html_


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## BondCoCoyote

wilded said:


> _Here is an article I wrote on putting them together. I have a DPMS and a Model 1 sales upper and they are about equal in accuracy and quality. I have the 16 inch SS bull barrels so they are not light but shoot lights out. ET_
> 
> _http://wildedtx.blog...lack-rifle.html_


Thanks, good article. I think I will go a Model 1 upper but still checking out JSE Surplus that Don had mentioned.


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## Helmet_S

Here is my $0.02.

If you need to have a chrome lined barrel to keep your firearm clean then you need to learn how to clean a firearm. Chrome lined to me simply means built for the lazy and more room for something to go wrong. I have heard of the lining peeling off from the bore and then also that it hampers accuracy. A steel or stainless steel barrel is easy to clean and is especially easy to clean if you have a decent cleaning method. The only way I could justify chrome lining for myself would be if I was in the military and would have a chance of prolonged time in the field with little to no cleaning supplies. Even then I don't think it would be that much more beneficial.

I hope that didn't offend anyone, but in my world I love to clean my firearms and won't sacrifice accuracy for a few minutes worth of cleaning time.

As for a bull barrel vs standard weight. For me I like the bull barrels and don't mind a little extra weight. My last AR-15 weighed in just under 12 pounds and it didn't phase me at all. I am definitely in the minority on this though. Most prefer something lighter. All I know is that I could hit anything that I aimed at easily within 400 yards and past that I still had faith. I wouldn't have that much faith with a 16" standard weight barrel. it is all in what you like and what you find necessary for your hunting adventures.

Keep us posted on your final decisions.


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## wilded

Here is my Model 1 varmint upper on a DPMS lower with Bill Springfield trigger.


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## youngdon

Nice rig Ed !


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## BondCoCoyote

Thanks to everybody for all their input. I found all of it helpful and after talking to a few guys from around home I went with the New Frontier lower and a Rock River Arms upper.(just ordered it today) the upper is an A4 w/the standard 16" chrome molly barrel. I figured I could always change the barrel out if it wasn't as accurate as I think it should be. Where and how I hunt, a 250 yard shot is a LONG shot for me. I'll end up with less than $600 for the set up minus a scope. I'll probably end up putting a Nikon coyote special scope on it...not sure yet. When I get it put together I'll be sure and post a picture.

thanks again for all your input.


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## fr3db3ar

I believe you'll like that combination if the lower works out.


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## youngdon

BondCoCoyote said:


> Thanks to everybody for all their input. I found all of it helpful and after talking to a few guys from around home I went with the New Frontier lower and a Rock River Arms upper.(just ordered it today) the upper is an A4 w/the standard 16" chrome molly barrel. I figured I could always change the barrel out if it wasn't as accurate as I think it should be. Where and how I hunt, a 250 yard shot is a LONG shot for me. I'll end up with less than $600 for the set up minus a scope. I'll probably end up putting a Nikon coyote special scope on it...not sure yet. When I get it put together I'll be sure and post a picture.
> 
> thanks again for all your input.


COOL ! You better start buying ammo now...you're gonna like it. Check the regs for yor state some states only allow a limited number of rounds in the magazine while hunting.
I also think that you'll find out that the trigger on that lower will smooth out a bit after 100 rounds or so.

You also are gonna want some tall rings or a riser, or a PEPR mount for your scope. Right now Nikon has a deal that if you buy a coyote special scope the will give you the riser for free>>>> Here is a link to the thread

http://www.predatortalk.com/topic/13478-free-ar-mount/


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## wilded

I really like my one piece mount with intregal rings. ET
http://www.model1sales.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=496


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## BondCoCoyote

Well here it is. I'll post another picture when I get it all fixed up.


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## hassell

Real nice, I only envy all you AR owners.


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## bones44

Great rig ! You don't mess around do you ? Have fun with it.


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## youngdon

Sweet ! I hope you bought a mess of ammo too !


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## jd_86

Look at the rifle kits from www.del-ton.com. they are reasonably priced and you can customize it how ever you want.


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## End mange

I agree the chrome lined barrels are not as accurate and accuracy is what im after. If your goin for a 223 i would look for one with a 223 chamber only, it will be a tighter chamber than one that shoots 556 and 223 which will improve accuracy as well.


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## fr3db3ar

If you like rails, you can change out that glacier hand guard for about $30 with one that will snap right into the same space.


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## BondCoCoyote

Yea, I seen one in the Sportsman Guide catalog for about 24 bucks. I have the original one camo'ed up and will probably leave it for now. I need to get some pictures posted on the finished product. I still don't have a scope on it yet.


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## fr3db3ar

They do work and fit well. I put one on my DPMS 308.


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## singlesix

Alot of you guys have heard this before, but chrome lined barrels were designed for the military barrels with the rapid fire in mind, which heats up the barrel much greater than we would have our barrels heat up. Also they are more corrosion resistant, and being in the jungle or what have you your not inclined to have the best cleaning methods. I looked into this before i built my ar, and i come to realize I do not need a chrome lined barrel. My non chrome lined barrel shoots great, and i know it will last a long time as long as i do my part to take care of it.

Every thing I have read tells me a chrome lined barrels will be less accurate, but only a dedicated marksman would know. I have shot chrome lined , chrome moly, and stainless and I could not tell you what is more accurate. I am not a dedicated marksman , i am a hunter .


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## knapper

I try for both.


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## singlesix

I just mean , when they talk about the difference in a chrome line barrel accuracy, and a non chrome line, it would not be enough to factor in for me. Iv only used the calipers a few times shooting, other than that im usually just happy with under an inch. Thats not what she said though!


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## youngdon

Well now you're refering to "Minute of dangle" !



End mange said:


> I agree the chrome lined barrels are not as accurate and accuracy is what im after. If your goin for a 223 i would look for one with a 223 chamber only, it will be a tighter chamber than one that shoots 556 and 223 which will improve accuracy as well.


The difference between a 5.56 and a .223 chamber is a throat dimension. 5.56 has a longer throat to accomodate longer (heavier) bullets. A good alternative is a "wylde" chamber,but not all manufacturers offer it. Outside case dimensions are equal for all intents and purposes, however the military brass is normally thicker, especially in the web area. Military amunition is also loaded to a highr pressure 60,000 as compared to a 223's 50,000psi Due to a shorter throat in the 223 the longer bullets of the 5.56 military ammo may be into the lands of you rifling causing these pressures to soar. These pressure issues are sometimes limited by the magazine length of the AR.


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## knapper

My match ar has the wyide chamber and it shoot so good it is real impressive. I have removalbe carry handle rear sight and I shoot with scope and iron sights, what impressive is the size of the groups with the iron sights.


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## fr3db3ar

If you're getting impressive groups with the open sights......it's not just the gun


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## youngdon

True Dat ...


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