# Get a jump on the season



## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

From Northern Missouri into Minnesota coyote bitches are weaning the pups. Now is a good time to get your howling in order. Not mention help the farmers and ranchers by getting rid of yotes now.

I learned when I was in my twenties the power bitches had in their howls. I spent allot of time in the field trying to learn to speak yote back in those days. In that time I learned that yotes are allot more vocal then what we realized. Fact is when bitches have pups they are noisy all times of the days, not just in the evenings when the typical caller hears them. Typical callers hear yotes in the evenings when they are packing up or when a group announces itself. For good reason they hear them then. Its because 75% of the daytime human noise is gone and yotes tend to announce more then 1-2 times. However, if you listen in the daytime you'll here them then also. Youll here the bitches howl and the pups do bark/howls. Occasionally youl here a male howl alos as some tend to hang with the bitch and pups until weaning. But there howl sounds more like the neighbors blue tic then a yote. I call it a 500lb howl and its very short.

What am I getting at. You can use the bitch lonesome howl right now on the pups. Its fun its easy and it works very well. You don't have to be an experienced howler either. It's a time when cover is thick and you have to be on your toes, but shot gunning this time of the year in Northern Missouri, Wisc. Iowa and Minnesota is fun and also beneficial to farmers, ranchers and deer herds. Yes in Iowa yotes are taking down deer.

All you need is a good howler, like a Dan Thompson mouthpiece, a filed of view about 50 yards in depth and 170degrees of visibility. Its nice to have a cross wind set up but not required. The pups are coming to you with their eyes open and noses off.

The secret is NO OVERHOWLING. Just get on the tip and let out a smooth yip yip yahooooooooo. Wait 15-40 seconds and let out one more. Then get the shotgun up and wait.
Two things will happen. If your somewhat deaf like me you'll need to have your hearing aids in.

You may here what you think is a neighbors ankle biting dog almost immediately. Listen close because if that barking turns into a bark/howl you have a pup not to far off. Remember the cover is thick this time of the year and your howls on a calm 85 degree day will seldom go ¾ mile. IF YOU HERE AN IDENTIFIED BARK/HOWL let out one more howl. The start scanning down the shotgun barrel because a pup will be there shortly, maybe two pups.
 
If you hear nothing then wait 20 mins constantly scanning the cover. They will show in 3-8 minutes up to as long as 15. Show some caution and stay on the stand at 20 minutes before moving.

Nothing shows go do another stand. This type of calling is perfect when your time is short or you want to try running and gunning.

Remember you don't have to be a great howler. Just do a yip yip yahooooooooooo.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

That's what I'm talking about. Thanks for the informative post DuckMaster.


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## El Gato Loco (Jan 15, 2010)

Real nice post! Thanks for sharing with us. This is great....


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## catcapper (Feb 11, 2010)

Right on DM---I had a female work'in with her pups about 10 o'clock yesterday morning across from the house for about 20 mins. Started yip-yapp'in at them with my bitch talk and had 3 pups come out on the north ridge pretty quick. I kept everything go'in for about 45 mins. You sure can ruin a litter this time of year.


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## Mattuk (Oct 16, 2010)

Its of no use to me unless we start importing coyotes but was a very interesting read, Thank you.


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## El Gato Loco (Jan 15, 2010)

Mattuk said:


> Its of no use to me unless we start importing coyotes but was a very interesting read, Thank you.


You only need 2... they reproduce like rabbits.









You wouldn't want that though.... you wouldn't have any foxes left!


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## Mattuk (Oct 16, 2010)

I think the roe and muntjac would get a hammering too! Roe weigh upto 60lb and the munty's 35lb or so.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Chris Miller said:


> You only need 2... they reproduce like rabbits.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Chris can I shed some light on what I have observed with regards to red fox and coyotes. Please dont take this as I am acting as a know it all. Just my observations thats all.

I grew up trapping fox and wiring foxs out of dens in the 60s and 70's for fur and ear bounties. From what I can recall each year from 66 into 1974 (I went to Veitnam early 75) the fox hides just kept getting worse and worse. Trust me it wasnt the barb wire or the traps we used eithe!

It got to a point that almost every fox we got out of certain dens had mange. Even our fence line dirt holes sets up to a mile away had mangy fox. It was pethetic. It was almost as bad as distemper in the raccoons we trapped in the 80s So " my" veiw (and I have been wrong before) is that here in the corn country it was coincendance that the fox start disapearing because of mange and it all happened about the time coyotes got a foothold in the late 70's early 80's. I trapped my first coyote in 1972 and called in my firts one in 1973 in the same place I trapped the one the year before. I used a Mallardtone closed reed rabbit distress call, still have it and it still calls a fox and coyote in on occasion!

I cant speak for Nebraska and states west but my opinion is that is what happened in Iowa and southern Minnesota.

I have videos I can share but I have found if you want reds and timber is availble go to the timber. They have always been there. Why you may ask? Two things.

- One the dens are almost always in a big brush pile. B heres the key. in the timber the dens freeze out. This is critical because unlike the dens dug deep on the hills going past the frost line , it got cold enough to kill the the mite that caused the mange in the brush piles. No mites no mange!

- Two, timber after clean farming took hold has more voles and mice were appearnet then row cropped corn fields of days gone buy. However as is happening now, the reds have to move. As to me they are more territoral in their hunting areas then any coyote, almost as bad as wolves. So as the population finnaly rebounds from the mange the fox are comming back to the open. And like the yotes in the sandhills if we dont get a real wet cold winter that will drive the frost deep the mange will get them. That in my opinion has what happened to coyotes in eastern wyoming and Nebraksa sandhills. The winters have been cold but somewhat dry. The mites have survived.

Another observation about fox and coyotes. At least here in Iowa, Minnestoa and Missouri. After trapping 200 hundred or more reds in the last 30 years I have never seen one mauled by anything in a leg hold trap. Trust me the best set for a red is a burried bait hole. Nothing but a 1.5 jump to hold a single leg. When you get to the fox you step on his side and you have a perfect hide. Now you would think that as nasty as a coyote is, Mr Wiley would maul a fox in aleg hold trap right? Or a early pair up bitch and dog in January would pick off an easy meal or at least maul it to protect there denning territory. But nothing, I have never had a red mauled in a trap, never!. Yet any trapper knows that even a mink will take a easy live muskrat from a trap. A old trapper friend of mine in his late 70's agrees with me and this guy gets fox and coyotes in the same 100 acre field. And this guy is makes big buck trapping fox and coyotes often trapping 2-300/year.

Chris forgive me I am not trying to start anything at all, I am just sharing what I observed here in corn country. Where you live it could be different.

TDM


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## El Gato Loco (Jan 15, 2010)

First off, your post is appreciated and we don't play those games on this forum where people are called "know it all's" or torn apart for sharing what they know. This is a very informative post and is based on much more actual fact and first hand knowledge than my simple minded post which was really just based on hearsay. In TX it was pretty much fact that there were no fox in coyote country and I think most of us just assumed it was because the coyotes were killing them or running them off.

I am actually quite surprised that you never had anything mess with a fox in a trap. I wonder why that is? I know they can be feisty creatures - that's been my experience with grays in cages anyway. Do you think they put up such a fight that the coyotes stay away, or are the coyotes just not interested?

I also enjoyed your thoughts on the mites and cold winters. Makes perfect sense to me. The gray foxes that I have caught around our place have looked real decent but the ones I catch on the cameras, and just see out and about look terrible. I don't think it's necessarily mange - they just look like they are suffering from malnutrititon.

Again, thanks for the insightful post. These kinds are my personal favorite.


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## destructive_mechanic (Jul 22, 2011)

Man thats good stuff! I may go give it a try this evening if i can escape the tics.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Chris and all others. Thank you so much for the kind words. Again I apoligize to all for the way I came across earlier on here. I was wrong for venting my case publically. Thank you!

Chris,

I have lots of questions like you do regarding why things happen the way they do. Why is it grey foxes dont get molested/ate by yotes in the desert? Maybe they do but I sure have called in a ton of greys when targeting Bobcats in AZ. Yet I know the yotes are their because the same stands gave up a as many as 5 yotes in the exact same place a few days later. Why is it in Tuscon urban yotes eat small dogs being walked by their owners yet it appears they tolerate grey foxes. Why is it yotes here in Iowa have attacked small dogs yet I cannot find any evidence where they bother reds? Why dont coyotes in Iowa bother sheep, hogs and cattle but out west they cause serious damage?

Let me answer this before you all ask. How can he know about desert calling when he's from Iowa. My answer is this. I was fortunate enough to spend 5 months in Tuscon 4 years ago on bussiness. Without a spouse with me except every other weekend, I called predators every chance I could. Once my wife couldnt make it out, so I called 21 days in a row for up to 14 hours/day on weekends.

Thank you all!

TDM


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## destructive_mechanic (Jul 22, 2011)

Like Chris said, people arent jerks on here in the least, and I like what you are writing! Especially since I dont know what I am doing and you break it down to where anyone can understand it. Great stuff DuckM and I hope you are going to hang around! If I can find my stuff (been out of country few months) then I am gonna try your bitch howling this evening or in the morning at the latest.


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