# Dirty Rifle shooting good groups???



## Not_Fur_Friendly (Feb 23, 2012)

For the most part, I clean my rifle after every use. I was asked by my buddy the other day to go to the range so he could shoot some of his reloads since he is working a load up. He begged me to go with him so I grabbed my AR-15 and 40 rounds and when I got to the range, I realized I had not cleaned my AR since the last time I went shooting and I put 100 or so rounds through it. Well, I didnt expect much from a dirty rifle and to my surprise it shot pretty good. The more I shot, the better my groups were. My last group was sub MOA......So, does an AR need to be cleaned after every use or is it ok to put a hundred or two rounds through it before a good cleaning???


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## Jonbnks (Jan 21, 2012)

Sometimes I find that my groups improve merely because I finally get down to business and settle into shooting. Unless the rifle has alot of build up in it already, you won't notice much change from only another hundred rounds. I have heard that some rifles do prefer to be left dirty but haven't noticed any difference in my rifles. If I know I'll be shooting again for just practice, I'll leave my rifle dirty for a week, but never more than that.


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## poe (Feb 10, 2010)

I dont know much of anything about the ARs but I know my savage predator seems to prefer a dirty barrel.


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## Hortontoter (Apr 27, 2012)

Most probably won't believe this. I have a Remington 700 in.243 with a 6-18X redfield scope on it. I bought the gun used in 1976 and bought the scope new the same year. This was my go to groundhog gun and sufficed as my WV/PA deer rifle. I handloaded my own rounds using Winchester casings with an 85 grain Sierra boattailed bullet using 44 grains of 4350 powder and a CCI magnum primer. It took a couple years of shooting to finally get the right load that it liked. I couldn't tell you how many rounds I ran through this rifle over 30 years of use. The other day a friend and I went to the range. I asked him if he would shoot a few groups with my Remmy. I was advised by my doctor to no longer use my shotguns or high powered rifles after my open heart surgery. He asked if I had cleaned the bore recently. To his disbelief I told him the bore had never been cleaned since I owned the gun. I stated the only thing that has been through that barrel was bullets. I told him it would shoot under an inch at 100 yards. He shot a three shot group of my old handloads that measured just under 7/8". So I guess my old Remmy likes a dirty barrel.


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## C2C (Mar 17, 2012)

Hortontoter said:


> Most probably won't believe this. I have a Remington 700 in.243 with a 6-18X redfield scope on it. I bought the gun used in 1976 and bought the scope new the same year. This was my go to groundhog gun and sufficed as my WV/PA deer rifle. I handloaded my own rounds using Winchester casings with an 85 grain Sierra boattailed bullet using 44 grains of 4350 powder and a CCI magnum primer. It took a couple years of shooting to finally get the right load that it liked. I couldn't tell you how many rounds I ran through this rifle over 30 years of use. The other day a friend and I went to the range. I asked him if he would shoot a few groups with my Remmy. I was advised by my doctor to no longer use my shotguns or high powered rifles after my open heart surgery. He asked if I had cleaned the bore recently. To his disbelief I told him the bore had never been cleaned since I owned the gun. I stated the only thing that has been through that barrel was bullets. I told him it would shoot under an inch at 100 yards. He shot a three shot group of my old handloads that measured just under 7/8". So I guess my old Remmy likes a dirty barrel.


 Glad to hear your gun still shoots great Hortontoter, afraid my lack of cleaning cost me my BLR 22-250 .. I did random cleaning s over the course of owning it , in 11 years and 4000 rounds and sad to say the barrel suffered badly . I know better but things were going smoothly and shooting great and all of a sudden the wheels seemed to fall off . My new Tikka gets much better care taken of it .. love the new one , but still miss my Browning .


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## knapper (Feb 5, 2010)

C2C said:


> Glad to hear your gun still shoots great Hortontoter, afraid my lack of cleaning cost me my BLR 22-250 .. I did random cleaning s over the course of owning it , in 11 years and 4000 rounds and sad to say the barrel suffered badly . I know better but things were going smoothly and shooting great and all of a sudden the wheels seemed to fall off . My new Tikka gets much better care taken of it .. love the new one , but still miss my Browning .


You did not shoot bad but, you did shoot out the barrel. The first inch of the rifling is the most important of the whole bore. The only rifle that I know of that people do not clean often is 22lr they seem to like it fouled. It goes for match guns to plinkers, the lead fouling seems to keep them shooting good even after thousands of rounds through them. The only thing on my 22's is the action and other parts never the bore. I shot out a rifle barrel in 2500 rounds in my match rifle.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

I clean my rifles on a semi regular basis, I don't see the need to clean after just a few rounds at the range or one or two out hunting. If you reload your cleaning schedule may need to be dependent on the powder you use, some powders burn dirty while others are pretty clean burning. On my AR's I try to at least clean the chamber and throat after a session.


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## fr3db3ar (Aug 6, 2011)

I rarely clean my guns. I'll make sure the bolts are lubed and run the ARs wet. I'll clean the BCG occasionally just because of the blow back gasses.

I don't have any bad shooters, except for the Handi 357 that I'm still trying to figure out.


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## JTKillough (May 4, 2010)

I don't clean my gun until I start to see deminished accuracy. I shoot at paper on a regular basis, between hunts. If the group starts to open up close what I consider coyote stopping ability, about 2 inches MOA. Then I clean and re-shoot for a fouled bore. Most guns shoot better with some fouling, but at some point they will start to lose accuracy and the group will open. This could take some time if your not worried about an eight inch group. But when shooting fox, cat, or coyote, you could easily miss with an eight inch group. Most modern propellents will not harm your bore if left for a long period of time. On the other hand, if you're shooting surplus, or namely, imported ammo, you should clean the gun everytime you're finished with a shooting session. Most imported ammo is very corrosive and can damage your rifle bore. Don't take the chance with imported fodder.


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## Not_Fur_Friendly (Feb 23, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies. I put this to another forum as well and most of the replies I got from both forums is that AR-15s dont mind getting and staying dirty.... I will still clean it of course but not till I see the accuracy drop off. Thanks again....

NFF


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## prairiewolf (Feb 19, 2012)

I dont clean the barrels that often but keep eveything else cleaned and oiled. I cleaned my ruger 308 once with the electronic outers stuff and boy was that a mistake. I was getting sub MOA before cleaning and after I was lucky to get 2" groups at 100 yds. I thought the stuff ruined my gun ! I kept shooting with no cleaning and after around 100 rounds it was back to sub MOA. Guess that stuff cleaned so well it was like a brand new barrel maybe even cleaner, you would not believe the stuff that(lead and copper) would be stuck to the rod when I would pull it from the barrel.

Has anyone else ever used the electronic cleaning ? If so how was it for you?


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## poe (Feb 10, 2010)

I shoot 55gr ballistic silvertips out of my .243. I went to go shoot at some paper with it the one day and my groups were allmost 2inches.I took it back to the house and cleaned it for quite some time. It went right back to 3/4 groups. I think it may be from the coating thats on those bullets I think if not cleaned it may built up a little to thick.


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## knapper (Feb 5, 2010)

prairiewolf said:


> I dont clean the barrels that often but keep eveything else cleaned and oiled. I cleaned my ruger 308 once with the electronic outers stuff and boy was that a mistake. I was getting sub MOA before cleaning and after I was lucky to get 2" groups at 100 yds. I thought the stuff ruined my gun ! I kept shooting with no cleaning and after around 100 rounds it was back to sub MOA. Guess that stuff cleaned so well it was like a brand new barrel maybe even cleaner, you would not believe the stuff that(lead and copper) would be stuck to the rod when I would pull it from the barrel.
> 
> Has anyone else ever used the electronic cleaning ? If so how was it for you?


I have used one of the cleaners you talk about and did not see any change. The only one I know about is my younger brother cleaned the bore of a target 22 and it took him a box of ammo to get it shooting to rezero the rifle.


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## bones44 (Jan 7, 2011)

I'm with these guys about cleaning only if I've used some imported or copper coated rounds. My muzzleloader gets cleaned after shooting it because of the powder being corrosive. My slug barrel prefers a fouled barrel otherwise my groups are horrid. My .22lr and .17hmr only get cleaned after 200 rounds or so. Copper and crappy propellant are probably the two worst enemies to our firearms IMO. Then you have no choice but to clean.


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## christopher (Oct 10, 2010)

hey tom try triple 7 it's not corrosive like pyrodex is


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## Not_Fur_Friendly (Feb 23, 2012)

christopher said:


> hey tom try triple 7 it's not corrosive like pyrodex is


I use BH209......eliminates swabbing between shots.....


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## bones44 (Jan 7, 2011)

That's what I use Christopher but it still can do damage if left too long. Hate to take chances. I use the 50gr. pellets. One thing is it cleans with water really easy. Thanks !


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## christopher (Oct 10, 2010)

thats what i use too is the 50 grain pellets


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## eshunter86 (Feb 17, 2010)

I will usually clean the action and the bolt, but that is about it. Although just like bones44 I clean my muzzle loader after every outing. The only time I clean my other fire arms from muzzle to buttstock is when they will be sitting up for a while due to my job.


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## Tracker401 (May 4, 2012)

I'm interested in this thread because I'm having a heck of a time with a 700 Remington Classic in 17 Remington. It's never been a tack driver, but shot about 1/2 to 3/4 inch most of the time. I stopped shooting it (and my other bolt guns) for about 7-8 yrs for a variety of reasons, and when I picked it up again and started shooting it shot just ok...3/4 to an inch. So I cleaned it, REAL clean and now it seems to not want to shoot at all. After 20 rounds I'll work on copper for a long time. I'll use Barnes CR10, JB compound, Kroil, Butches bore shine,Patch Out... and nothing seems to help...and Lord at the copper! I just shot it 20 rounds, and will wipe it out with kroil, but will not use any copper cleaner. Maybe it needs copper to smooth things up a bit. If it doesn't go back to shooting in the next 20 rounds, I think I'll box it up and send it to Pac Nor for a barrel that wasn't cut with a rasp! It's a shame, Both of my SAVAGE rifles, a 22-250 sporter barrel (savage barrel) and a .223 Criterion barrel will both outshoot the Remington by a lot. Both savages will shoot 5 shots into a ragged hole (if I do my part). The Remington is making me crazy!!

Tracker401


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