# Executing



## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Got a call from Michigan Flyways retriever club to bust some ducks for its hunt test this Saturday. Pal, Joe, is going along, too. More pressure this time, because the club is paying much more for ducks and they don't want 'em to gain their freedom at the club's expense. Our job is to make sure that doesn't happen.

We've got a good record and only let one fly away last time, because it flew toward the gallery.

This time, both Joe and I have added red dot sights to our autoloaders and neither of us has done much in the way of practice. I've taken a few crows on the wing and really like the EOTech on the Browning Silver, but I haven't been tested much.

Shooting ducks in front of the dogs reminds me of woodcock hunting in that they seem to come to a halt in mid-air, before hitting the afterburners. That's the time to pluck 'em from the sky and the same with these ducks.

Just wanna keep that record clean. It all comes down to execution - so to speak.


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## pokeyjeeper (Sep 5, 2013)

Go get em glen


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Heck yeah, Pokey. Shoot their ammo and get a free lunch. We're shooting for Master B class dogs, so they should know what they're doing out there. Lots of fun to have a ring-side seat to all the action.


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## hassell (Feb 9, 2010)

Sounds like a great time, good luck and have a blast.


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Joe and I finished the shoot for the Michigan Flyways and I'm happy to say that the only ducks to get reprieves were the ones left in the cage. Fairly windy conditions made for more than one shot per shooter, which meant a few ducks did not die in the same spot as the others. That doesn't seem fair to some of the dog handlers/owners at times.

Here's how the test for the Master class went. By the way, Master is the highest designation for the dogs, after Senior, and Junior.

There were a total of 4 stations the dogs had to watch: #1 had a dead duck, launched it with the sound of a shotgun blank, and the handler/owner makes sure the dog "marks" the bird, then on to #2 that's us, the only station with live ducks, and we are about 100 yards from where the dogs start. We signal we're going to launch a duck by using a duck call, then the duck is launched and we shoot it. Dog marks it. Then onto #3 another dead duck launch and shot and the dog marks it, and while the dog is bringing back the third bird #4 station sends a guy out in the field to plant a dead duck without the dog ever seeing it, but there was a corresponding shot, as the dog was bringing in the third bird. That blind retrieve is up to a slick dog and/or handler.

And, when the dog completes all the tasks (including one water retrieve on the first blind), it must stand in "honor" of the next dog called into action, when the sequence begins anew. Some dogs can't just sit there and watch and are penalized.

The very best dogs mark every bird and remember where each is, but if a dog gets twisted off course the handler/owner is allowed a sequence of signals with the whistle and other communications.

Some dogs totally screw up and are pulled from the competition.

Pic #1 - That's us heading in.

Pic #2 - I believe that's my neighbor's dog

Pic #3 - Random retrieve

Pic #4 - Looking back to where the dogs start taken from our blind

Pic #5 - That's Joe relaxing before the action begins. The duck slinger is in the foreground.


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## hassell (Feb 9, 2010)

Thanks for the update and sharing.


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## pokeyjeeper (Sep 5, 2013)

That's cool thanks for bringing us along one thing I've never done is duck hunted


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Good story Glen, and nice shooting. It's not as easy as some think with all those eyes on you. I've not duck hunted in years(since leaving Ohio) but I was involved in hunt tests (pointing dogs) here in AZ and was an official gun and a few other hunt tests. My male Weimaraner at the time was already a show champion thanks to my ex. Once I took him afield he wanted nothing to do with the show ring, he was a smart dog. He was a gentle hunting fool, but wasn't about to give up the fun of pointing and retrieving to another dog. I never could get him to honor.


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

We had one of the dog owner's in our blind and when his dog came to the line, I watched the owner as much as his dog. When his dog finished, it was placed in the "honor" position next to the next competitor and was barking its head off wanting to do it some more.

I could feel the owner's pain, as his $10,000 investment became just another pretty face.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

I can't believe that people pay that kind of money to buy and train a dog and feel sorry for the guy who now has the pet he never wanted. I've seen a lot of it mostly with show dogs that are spayed or neutered and sent to another home (where they are probably better off) I guess if you have the change and that is how you choose to spend it it's up to you. As long as you aren't asking me for it.

I've never bought a dog thinking to make it a show or field champion, they have always been my companion first and foremost. If they develop into more, good, if not that's okay too.

As you all might gather I am rather fond of the Weimaraner breed and dogs in general.


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

My neighbor has 3 competing dogs: Two are golden retrievers and were at the competition, and one which is a Siberian husky that competes in agility trials.

If you think the cost of one of the dogs and training is steep, consider having 3 of them! On top of that, he's having a pond excavated so they have a place to fetch over water. This pond has become more like a lake, as he keeps digging. The original price tag was $78,000 to move the dirt, but it needed to be deeper, so he hired a second contractor. And, now a third contractor, that's been digging for over a year!

At least I have a place to get free sand, because it looks like a huge volcano and the sand needs to be hauled away. They've already contacted me about moving some trees for them in the fall to landscape the hills. Already moved a few for them with my tree spade.

He's a good man and loves his "kids" - that's what he calls them. Nothing's too good for them. One of his prize dogs, Cutter, has passed the Master hunt test over 20 times already. These folks and dogs live for the stuff.

I'll try to get a photo or 2 of the pond project. In fact, he's dug 2 ponds - one closer to his house and on the same side of the road. Also, he had to purchase the extra land across the road to dig the ponds, so we can toss that into the overall cost.

He stopped by my place Sunday evening after the event and congratulated us on the shooting and said we will be welcomed back. He then handed me a couple of gift certificates from the Michigan Flyways as a bonus. (He and his wife are involved in the management of the club.)

Guess I can think of other ways to make money disappear, but I doubt if *they* can. When one considers how many of them were at the event, it *is * big dough. One after the other, they came with their rigs from across the Midwest, each sporting their own brands. In the Master class alone, we had 2 tests going on simultaneously with a total of 70 dogs (we shot for 35 of them.) Then there are the lower classes with less experienced dogs - all playing along.


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## hassell (Feb 9, 2010)

Wow that's quite the story, we don't need the sand or the tree's, have plenty of water But will take any extra cash.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

I got hooked on the hunt test thing and field trials 30 years ago. Back when all hunt test were run by just the AKC and they were brand new. That led to me being a pro dog trainer. Much better when clients pay for the training, handling and travel to the events. Then I got smart an realized every weekend was going to the dogs!

Glen why do they use bird throwers these days? We used to hand launch ducks, pheasants and pigeons. I remember one AKC test I was throwing and shooting all alone. 72 ducks were thrown by hand and shot, not one missed. Ahhhh the good ol' days when I was young and had an arm.

Did not mean to distract from your lime light...just brought back memories.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

You can hide a mechanical thrower easier than a person


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

youngdon said:


> You can hide a mechanical thrower easier than a person


I respectfully disagree with that one Don. When running from the line if the judges have the test setup correctly you'll never see the gunner(s). I say this from being a judge, running thousands of test and shooting thousands of birds.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

I guess it's not any different than the people that show dogs, their goal is to make their dogs "best in show" enough to garner high dollars for their progeny. They spend thousands of dollars a year traveling the country going to shows. Many of them have motorhomes that they "customize" by removing almost all the interior so they can stack dog crates to the ceiling. Many of them treat their dogs like an investment, few see much if any return on that investment.

I enjoyed the camaraderie of the hunt tests and field trials but the dog show thing was my ex-wifes thing. I liked to watch the dogs move through the paces in the ring, but all the standing around(not to mention politics) involved was enough to cause me to go slightly off center. Some say temporarily, some say otherwise.

Your neighbor sounds like a very rich, in many ways, individual.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Larry said:


> I respectfully disagree with that one Don. When running from the line if the judges have the test setup correctly you'll never see the gunner(s). I say this from being a judge, running thousands of test and shooting thousands of birds.


That hasn't been my experience Larry


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

I don't know exactly why the launchers are used, but everything we did had to be according to the AKC rules. I have always had a superior throwing arm, but there's no way I could have ever launched those birds as far as the launcher. Plus, my guess is they are looking for consistency more than anything else.

Some pics of the "pond" have been included. You can see how much more dirt must be moved. My lens is not wide enough to capture the entire body of water in one shot.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

What an undertaking,

My aunt in Ohio had a "pond" dug it was just about 2 surface acres and 30 feet deep she sloped the dirt at one end and made a sledding hill, once you hit the ice it felt like you accelerated. They played hell at the end keeping the ground water pumped out until they finished


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Don...I am sure times have changed. I see Glen posted a Master test B. That is something I have never been exposed too. Also I have to admit I have never even seen a bird launcher to be honest. So maybe I misjudged.

As for show dogs I have a good tale. I bred My Master Hunter /Qualifier Ms Molly Brown III to 3 time national Open Champ Aces High Three back in 1990. This was a hot pairing and at the time an expensive litter and I am not talking pup fees. I am talking airline dog tickets, vet bills and stud fees!

Anyway after the litter was 5 weeks old the one pup had not been sold yet. Sitting in a booth at a local restaurant getting ready to help at a near by club event, a show person I despised came up to me and asked. " Hey Larry, hows the conformation on your litter? I may be interested the last $700.00 pup"

Being a person that admired good hunting dogs and didn't care for this show person that cringed every time he touched a dead duck at a club test, I pondered his question. In no hurry to answer I picked up my coffee cup, took a sip and a few long seconds later said " You know the conformation is excellent on the litter" Then I took a long drink as he said anxiously "Tell me more? ...I really admire the looks of Molly"

I sat the coffee cup down, laid back my cowboy hat, looked him straight in the right eye and said " they are exactly like Molly and Aces High... the pups are perfect! I saw his eyes open and then I finished my statement.

" They all have four legs, a tail, two eyes, two ears, a nose, and not one is bald. " I think he figured out then I didn't like him as I heard him grunt something like I was a donkey and he left the restaurant.

Glen...thank you for the post. Brought back memories. Also great shooting, must be very hard shooting a super sonic duck coming out of enlarged sling shot! I can hear two bangs one from the bird breaking the sound barrier and the second Glens mighty 12! Then a thump as it hits the ground. Again job well done.


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

The Master B reference was a bit confusing, I must say. The "B" only meant that there were so many in the Master class that it had to be divided into A and B. That way, we could get through the line without taking all day. Sorry for misleading anyone, but there was another hunt test being conducted simultaneously.

It really isn't hard to drop them at all. The real trick was to drop them all in the same place, and like I mentioned, we had a few that didn't read the manual or sign the memo of understanding.

As far as being seen, and possibly distracting any dogs, the portable blind does the job of hiding things. After shooting, we had to hunker down and sit still so as not to upset the balance of fairness when the dogs came searching nearby. Heck, I don't know why some dogs don't actually come into our blind where all the ducks are caged. But, we were shooting in front of the top class, and I suspect they'd never get to that level, if they made such blunders.

My 12-gauge is not so mighty when loaded with anemic 1-ounce loads of steel 6 shot, although they were listed as 1340 fps. Seems the officials don't want the birds messed up too much, so that's what they gave us. I would always let Joe shoot first; if he missed, I'd follow up. So, it gets a bit tricky to keep every one of the dog owners happy. Hit 'em but not too much; miss 'em and you cost them $16 each time. We tended to err on the side of over-kill rather than to have one fly off. But, I can tell you that after having watched other shooters, before I ever got involved, missing is more common than it should have been.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Tell the club if they ever need an old experienced gunner and will pay for gas and motel...Ill come and sit with you. I understand what you mean by getting the bird in the same spot each time. But that is one reason why AKC Hunt test are poor in my mind. Its one thing to judge dogs against each other fro elimination on how straight of line they take and can step on a bird during a mark .

But these are hunting dogs judged against a score they should show a little nose to find the bird. In fact I used to expect it.

Same thing with blind retrieves. If the dog doesn't take a good line and has to be bumped a little with a whistle, no one should care as long as its concise and their are no refusals. In fact trainabilty is one thing you judge for. How can you judge trainability if a handler line's up a dog.....it takes a straight line steps on the bird and comes back. Hows is that trainability? How do I know the dog can stop and take hand signals as all Master Hunters should with out hesitation.

Guess that is where I got in trouble when judging some test. Because I would use the Larry Elbow blind. You would send the dog straight. Stop it and cast to the left or the right where the bird was. Now I could judge train ability. Many people frowned on my judging because old field trailers think a line is a just that a line the dog should run for 300 yards with no stopping. Thats fine for elimination from one dog to another, but it sure does not demonstrate trainability.

Hey Glen how many of these dogs had to run through decoys or swim through them at the test?

They forget this is called a AKC Hunt test and my job as a Master judge is to make sure if the dog is out hunting it doesn't disturb the hunt. That means when it leaves the line/blind its superbly under control 100% of the time and it has a nose to find birds that get lost along the backs or tree lines. But heaven bird if a master dog hunts these days, all judges will drop them.


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Wow! Lots there, Larry.

They'd never go for your proposal, but the lunch ain't bad.

From what I've seen of other shooters, they never did as well as we have. No brag. Just fact. I saw plenty of clean get-aways, the first time I ever went to watch and learn. So, if they can miss, they can't make a bird fall in the same spot anyway. And, that's why they have no room to bellyache. Heck, we are volunteers, and one thing I've learned over the years in many capacities of volunteerism: Don't yell at the volunteers. We couldn't have heard them anyway.

The first bird had them fuming, though. Understand Joe's and my jobs were to shoot - nothing else. But, the young Michigan State Student and ROTC member said he knew how to sling the birds in the launcher. Trouble was, they were starting and nobody told us, although I could see some gathering back there. (Apparently, we were supposed to have a two-way radio, but that didn't happen.)

Next thing they yell, "Guns up!" The kid was feverously trying to get the first bird caught, loaded and slung but when he pulled the trigger, the bird immediately fell about 7 feet in front of us. It got shot, but not correctly. Turns out the kid didn't know how to set up the bungees. Now we're in a mess. So, they sent another person out to see what was wrong and he couldn't believe we had no radio, let alone any clues as to what was supposed to happen and when! I'm glad the man came out so we could tell them what had happened. But he told us there was some serious clamoring. It all boiled down to some lame management, that's all I can say. We never really screwed up after that.

Bottom line is there is a lot of pressure on those people. Not so much for the volunteers in my book.

All dogs had to run through decoys. Some decoys on the ground and some in the water. But, understand the actual water retrieving was to be conducted later in the day. In our event, a dead bird was slung into the water and/or shoreline vegetation protruding high above the water for the first mark and that's was it. Our live bird was next. Then another dead one slung out in another location. And, finally the blind retrieve, while the dog was fetching the third bird. The very best dogs did it impressively. Others got the boot and we had to pick up the birds.

My neighbor's got a top-level Master and he's getting the pond, if he lives that long.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Next time you Gun ask around about what a Swamp Collie is. Myself and a FBI friend like to think we invented the term back when hunt test started in 1988 I believe. You see we started noticing many people would show up with their high priced show dogs to get another addition to the pedigree. AS easy way to do that was the Junior test. Simple single mark, dog has all day to the find the bird and drag it back to the line.

Of course the breed was a Golden Retriever. One lady showed up and her dog had just had its nails blackened she said and also she spent $150.00 at the groomers in preparation for a the show ring in a week. We looked at each other and both commented the water test was next. That comment was followed with a devious grin, especially knowing the dog arrived in the front seat and not in a dog crate.

We looked the are over and saw what we were looking for. The dog would start on land go down a short bank into the marsh and then swim for 15 yards and pick up the bird on the bank that was very visible. It was a July test and the temps were in the upper 80's and most ducks shot the day before were pretty ripe.

The show lady came to the line. She had just brushed fee-fee and he looked pretty spiffy. The bird was thrown. Fee-fee walked to the swampy are and the lady started yelling fetch it up, fetch it up. Fee fee tested the mud in the swamp with his paw and lunged in. Then he found the water foundered like it was his first swim and came out on the bank. He had a tad bit of trouble with the ripe duck. We figured it was because its didn't smell like a rubber doggy toy. He would not pick it up. He was out. We told the lady to get her dog. Well in her white tennis shoes and designer clothes she stood on the line while Fee Fee started rolling on the duck. We asked the gunners to pick it up. Yelling and Yelling heal, heal heal and blowing on the biggest whistle I ever saw, Fee Fee started his way back. Well you see about 8 other dogs had brought the bird back on the trail Fee Fee was using through the cattails. He smelt there birds and decided to start rolling again. Needless to say after some more yelling and blowing on the whistle, Fee Fee finally had a leash around it. Quickly the towels came out and we heard.....Fee Fee I love you, you such a pretty boy. Then the lady went asking if anyone had any towels. As most people had crates she was out of luck. Fee Fee was loaded into the front seat of her Volvo station wagon and off they went.

The FBI man looked at me and said " remind me to never get a Swamp Collie" they sure can carry allot of water and mud in that long coat! Thus after that the term Swamp Collie stuck and spread through out the AKC hunt test world.


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