# muzzleloader



## poe

Well I have been thinkig about trying something new so after trying archery huntingnd lots of rifle hunting I have now purchased a muzzleloader. I got a traditions vortek and so far have been very happy with it. It might not be the best ML on the market but I have been very happy with it so far. Im going to give the open sights for awhile and see how I like them and if not then Ill look into a scope. Im sorry I dont have any pics at the moment but I will try and get some up. My main question is so far I have been shooting 225gr hornady ftx bullets out of it and they dont seem to shoot to bad. I was just wondering what you guys use for deer in your ML.


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## 220swift

50 cal. round lead ball 
.480 dia 320 gr. ahead of 90 gr. fff black powder


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## fr3db3ar

I doubt that a round ball will work in this inline. It's possible as it's been done at times but usually the fast twist will throw curve balls.


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## bones44

I use 100 gr. of triple seven with a 295 gr. conical out my CVA Optima. Good to 200 yards. It puts a hurtin on em for sure !


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## glenway

I have a Knight Revolution and have taken 22 deer with 22 shots - all but 2 were instantaneous kills with high-shoulder shots. It pushes a Barnes 250-grain TMZ bullet at 2190 fps with 150 grains of Triple7. Watch out for bullets such as the Hornady SST, because they blow up like varmint bullets. My tests concluded that weight retention is only 54 percent. They fly great, however, but so does the Barnes with 100-percent weight retention.

I'd get a good scope to maximize the potential of your new smokepole.

Also, wondering if anyone has experimented with Buckhorn powder.


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## fr3db3ar

I read that as 220 saying what to use but I see that's not the case at all.

I have a couple inlines that I'm selling. I bought a used C&B 50 that I'll be using this year with .490 round ball and probably 60-80 BP sub. Of course I'll also be carrying the Pietta 44.


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## 220swift

fr3db3ar said:


> I read that as 220 saying what to use but I see that's not the case at all.
> 
> I have a couple inlines that I'm selling. I bought a used C&B 50 that I'll be using this year with .490 round ball and probably 60-80 BP sub. Of course I'll also be carrying the Pietta 44.


you're right fred, I was sharing what I shoot in my 1972 CVA Mountain Rifle. I'm very accurate out to 100 yards, but not so much past that. You are right though, the newer rifles with the faster twists will throw major curves with a round ball.


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## JLowe69

Well, folks seem to either love or hate Powerbelts, but I have had excellent performance from them myself, out of more than one ml. I currently shoot a CVA magbolt150 in .45cal and load it with 110grn of 777 under a 225grn Powerbelt. 1.25 inch groups at 100yds. and about 5 inch 200yds groups.


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## fr3db3ar

The thing I dislike the most with inlines is cleaning plastic from the barrel. What do you guys use? I've scrubbed and scrubbed and I swear there is still some in there at the breech end.


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## JLowe69

For starters don't use a standard 209 primer, the ones made for ml's are actually not quite as hot and I have found I end up with less of that burnt ring down by the breach with them. The Rem. 40-X bore cleaner will get rid of it when it does happen. It's very harsh on the lungs though, so I strongly recommend you make sure to use it outside.


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## HowlinRed

T/C Encore Endeavor

100gr triple seven

250gr t/c shock wave, spire point

Stainless steel barrel. I use windex with amonia d to clean with and it seems to do a good job.


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## glenway

Hey, there, HowlinRed. Have you recovered any of the T/C Shockwave bullets? If I remember correctly, Hornady makes them and they are the same as their explosive SSTs. I also believe there may a bonded version available, if you don't like treating deer like varmints - although some would say they are one in the same.

I have only had one Barnes retrieved with less than 100 percent weight and it was only two of the petals broken off after hitting shoulder on a quartering-to shot. It's hard to get any of them back, because of the high penetration.


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## HowlinRed

I shot a spike buck with this bullet this past Thursday and it did what I wanted it to do. I had about a 30 yrd. shot so I decided to take a neck shot and it was DRT. The deer was very close to a thicket and I knew that is where it would go if I hit it in the heart, lung area. Light was fading and I didn't want to chance loosing it in that thicket.

The bullet did great. It entered the left side of the neck and destroyed the spine. No exit.

I have tried other bullets but my gun really likes this bullet and this load.


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## HowlinRed

I did not retrieve the bullet though. I couldn't tell what shape it was in.


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## glenway

Those bullets seem to fly well in anything. Good choice for a neck shot. It didn't exit because it exploded, otherwise it would have exited in a neck shot.


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## HowlinRed

Yep, that's what I'm thinking as well. Sure is nice not to track one in the dark.


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## glenway

All I ever found of those bullets were the tip and hollow jacket. The lead is so soft it explodes like a miniature grenade. Be careful not to take heavy bone shots such as quartering-to at the shoulder. It would be best to take them in the ribs. However, hydrostatic shock will make a mess of innards. If you are able to stick to neck shots, those bombs would be hard to beat.

If you get a chance to shoot those bullets into wet newspapers or magazines, try doing so at various yardages. You will find that they actually perform in a more controlled fashion after slowing down.

I'm staying with the concept of controlled-expansion, weight retention, and penetration including hydrostatic shock, but to a lesser degree. My deer hunting is done with only single-shot firearms and bullet integrity is important to my style of shooting.


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## poe

I used my rifle to get my bucks this year and the doe I got with my muzzle loader was a headshot so I didnt get to recover any bullets this season. I did however get a scope for the vortek and I bulled a couple bullets out of a log so here they are. They went through carboard. A metal lid off of a oil drum and then they stopped about 5 to six inches into the log. They seem to have held together fairly well.





















I set a new bullet beside to compare. When I get some pictures of some groups I will post them.

This is the 225gr hornady ftx


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## glenway

From the photos, it looks like they are pretty tough - expecially given what you were shooting into. I haven't tested the Hornady flex-tips for weight retention but it sure looks like they are better than SSTs or Shockwaves (which are also SSTs).

The Hornady flex tips are less money than others, too.

Thanks for the demo, Poe.


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## Not_Fur_Friendly

I have a TC Omega Z5 .50 In-Line ML. I shoot a 290gr Barnes TMZ pushed by 90gr of BH209. I love the way the Barnes holds together and retaines 90% of its weight when it hits.


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## poe

I havent got to shoot any yet but I picked up some 300gr Barnes expanders. Im thinking this might be a little to big of bullet as Im pretty sure by barrel is a 1 in 28 twist but we shall see. I also have 3 XTP bullets that came with some speedloaders. has anyone tried these.


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## JLowe69

I've shot several deer with the XTP's with good results as long as they were more than 50 yards away. Inside 50 yards most pistol bullets will fail at ML velocities. One trick I learned for the XTP's is superglue a BB into the hollow point basically making it a ballistic tip, for me/my Knight rifle, it cut the groups at 150 yards almost in half. As far as the other bullets holding together when shot into a log, in my experience that will actually keep them together better, my guess is, its because there is no room for them to come apart. For example, I used to shoot 1" diameter glass boulders from my cannon and they would stay together when shot into a log, or tree. They would be dust and disintegrate when you tried to remove them but intact until you disturb them. If like most of us you don't have ballistic jell, a couple of plastic buckets full of water laid end to end, or one bucket of water with lots of sheets of newspaper just loosely put in like your'e packing something for shipping makes a much better test in my opinion. Wet phone books work too, but tend to show better results than what you will actually get on critters. These are just my opinions from my experiences though. Nothing scientific just trial and error experimentation.


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## poe

I was wondering the same thing and maybe sometime I will try a better test. The log wasnt really being used to test the bullets so much as being used as a backstop. If I get time to do a real test I will be sure to let you know. Im sure all of these bullets will work for deer so Im prob just going to keep trying bullets until I find what shoots out of my gun best and then next year I will try them out. This summer when pelts are not worth anything I may also try them out on some coyotes haha.


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## JLowe69

Yep, just keep trying 'em all until you find what your gun likes best, that way you not only figure out what your gun likes, you have a perfect excuse to shoot more, and more, and then a bit more. lol


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## glenway

I have no reason to switch from the Barnes. Nothing holds together better, penetrates better, and still mushrooms to twice its size. I use the 250-grain tipped Barnes (TMZ) and never have had anything get away. I made the mistake of shooting a deer quartering to me last year and I'll never do it agian. The bullet was placed in front of the shoulder and destroyed the contents to the point the deer was impregnated with bile.

This year, I took a neck shot and the processor remarked about the extensive damage on the buck.

I also use Barnes in my Contender and NEF slug gun with similar results on deer.

Wet phone books are great and will give a relative measure of bullet integrity by comparing retrieved bullets and weighing them. Although it may not be as good as ballistic gel, it doesn't cost anything and is a good way to recycle.

I have also tested pistol bullets and some don't fly well at the higher velocities, but a bullet such as the Speer Gold Dot, 270-grain, .44 caliber is very tough, at 1400 to 1700 fps. And, inexpensive if you can get the proper sabots. But, I no longer use pistol bullets, because there are so many better options today.

I'm getting ready to head out the door with my slug gun and Barnes combo for the last day of regular firrearms deer season. I'll try to post a photo of a couple of recovered Barnes bullets when I return. You will see how the bullet petals bend back to touch the bullet's base. Incredible stuff and just as advertised.


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## JLowe69

Yep, the performance of the Barnes from everyone I've seen removed from game was great when it came to weight retention, I haven't shot many though. In your experience glenway does that HUGE open, air grabbing cavity in the front have any effect on long distance accuracy? I'm surprised they don't fill it with something, even something soft and flexible like the Hornady lever gun tipped ammo, for better aerodynamics, especially after seeing how well a BB does in the XTP's.

One word of caution though, I shot a doe once in the head with a BB tipped XTP and the BB somehow left her head at literally a 90 degree angle to the direction it was traveling and went thru the neck and slipped between two vertebrae on a button buck that was walking behind her( due left from how I was facing/shooting) dropping him as well. I was fortunate enough to have more than one antler-less tag so it wasn't as big a deal as it could have been, but it still left one less buck in the herd for the next year.


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## glenway

Both of these Barnes bullets *were* tipped. The upside down picture shows a date of 2010 and it was fired into a buck at 60 yards with my T/C in .45/70 with a Barnes Socom tipped 300-grain. It's the only one I have ever recovered that wasn't 100 percent intact.

The other one was last year from my Knight muzzleloader. A 250-grain tipped MZ at 2190 fps. Fully intact after going lengthwise. Ugly.

With the construction of these, there are no problematic angles for humane kills. It is apparent that the cutting diameter is twice the size of the base, when you consider that the petals have gone beyond full open.

I've taken probably in excess of 4 dozen deer with them and recovered only 4 bullets - all from quartering angles. These things will break bone and keep going. No jacket. No bonding. Just a copper cookie cutter that hits like a sledge and keeps driving.

At muzzleloader ranges, even the flat base works well because it has more bearing surface.


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## JLowe69

Ahh, so you use the tipped ones, mainly I've only seen the open front type, but now that you said yours were tipped I do recall seeing some of those as well. Any experience with the open/non-tipped ones?


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## glenway

Yes, but they are the older style. Same bullet without the tip. The buck I took two weeks ago was with one (non-tipped) from my NEF Ultra Slug gun and a 325-grainer. Can't hardly find them anymore in 12-gauge, because Federal is now using another bullet in its Premium line. It wouldn't shoot worth a nickel, so I got my hands on some of the old ammo from Cablea's. The only place I could find any. It had sat around so long the bullet cavity showed corrosion. All fired fine during sight in, though. Glad I got them.

For muzzleloaders, the tipped version is plentiful at about $1 each. They load real hard in my Knight Revolution but it shoots like a fine rifle. And these are the new EZ load sabots!


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## JLowe69

My American Knight had a rather tight bore too, some loads you could barely load with a clean bore. My kid has it now, the stock has been cut down then had the same piece glued back in when he grew enough to not need it short anymore, but it always shot well. The only issue I had was the original breach plug the threads for the nipple stripped and it shot me in the forehead with the nipple once, but the shot still hit, and killed the buck. The fact that I had threaded a musket nipple into a #11 nipple breach plug may have been a factor though.


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## poe

I'm still fairly new to muzzle loading but I have done a lot of reloading for centre fire rifles. I have tried a couple different bullets but still do not have great accuracy. I have been cleaning my barrel between shots and with 2 pellets 100 grains but still keep getting a flyer that is about 5 inches off. I have heated of people shooting 150 gr backing off to 100 and fixing the problem but I was wondering if bumping up to 150 could also help. I'm making sure to load each round the same making sure my bullet is seated all the way but not so tight to crush the powder. I am thinking of picking up some blackhorn 209 as I hear a lot of people have seen accuracy improvements when doing this. Am I better off to keep trying different bullets and sabots or do think the powder change is a good first step.


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## JLowe69

I've had that problem with pellets myself and from what I've read its usually because a pellet crushes even just cracks, and blocks the hole through the center it screws up the burn rate, and just wreaks havoc with accuracy. I would try some loose powder, I've never heard of accuracy improving with a 150grns, not suffering sometimes, but improving, I've never seen it, or heard it from someone I trust. Yet. lol The pellets are convenient, but most folks get far better results from loose powder, and a whole bunch more shots per dollar.


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## poe

I can see how the pellets are more simple but if I pre measure loads of loose powder and put them inside a loading tube is it really any more difficult to load. Also I picked up the end for my ramrod that barnes suggests for there expander bullets. It will mount on my bullet starter but not on the ramrod of my vortek. If I use it to start the bullet the few inches with my T Handel will I be alright to finish with the original end on my ramrod.


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## JLowe69

For me its about six of one half dozen the other as far as ease when you use a speed loader, the big advantage would be if you drop a pellet you can pick it back up. Those loading tips can make a difference in my experience. I always use a deep dished plastic one but thats with plastic tipped bullets. With the barnes I really can't say. I started using it after unloading some and seeing the damage that the ramrod does to the tip when pushing the bullet home. I would think any projectile with a plastic tip will get at least slight damage if you don't use something recessed to push 'em home. If your using the hollow nosed ones they make a tip that goes inside them that helps align them, and stops you from deforming the face of them too. If in doubt I would just load one and seat it how you always do then unload it and look at the projectile for any damage. I only use my ramrod and just choke up to start 'em so I just keep the tip on it. I'm surprised it wont mate to your ramrod. Dumb question but did you try both ends? The standard brass tip may thread off to accommodate the one from Barnes.


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## poe

Yes it will thread into the other end but then I can not use my t Handel I may just try loading some this way and just wear a thick glove. I could get a different ramrod but don't want to if I don't need to


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## JLowe69

Yeah, I use a combo speed loader, powder measure, T handle, so I wasn't considering not being able to use the T handle over the big end as its off mine. Sorry bout that, I knew it was a dumb question for some reason. lol I can look and see if it has a name on it if you want. Its clear plastic, with load increments on the side, a divider in the middle that has a blind hole in the side for the end of the ramrod, and caps on both ends so your projectile goes in one end and load in the other.


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## poe

I thing I have actually seen those befor I may just have to make another purchase


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## JLowe69

I've had mine for around 20 years, they are great except the ends don't fit all that tight, I keep a rubber band around it while hunting. It also has a very short bullet starter opposite the hole for the ramrod. Not sure about now, but I paid like 5 bucks when I got mine. Oh,and I talked to my cousin last night/this am. about the Barnes loading tip as he is a big fan of their bullets. He said the spike tip that goes down inside the open tip ones did make a big difference in consistent accuracy for him.


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## JLowe69

Ok poe, I just looked around a bit and found 'em at www.grafs.com If you go there and search speed loaders its the first one shown, made by CVA and goes for under six bucks. Looks just like mine, just less where and what look to be improved caps. Surprisingly they have not went up in price much in twenty plus years.

I have a couple center fire reloading questions when you have a minute poe, I'll post them in the .444 brass thread though so I don't clutter up this one.


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## Not_Fur_Friendly

poe, I have used BH209 for three years now for my In-Line and I love it. Very consistant and the need to swab after every shot is removed. May need to clean the flash hole in the breech plug due to fouling from the 209 primer but I have gotten a dozen shots off before swabbing or hangfires. Its a great BP sub. I pre measure loads and my ML likes 90gr BH209 and 290gr Barnes TMZ.


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## JLowe69

NFF, just raised a good point. Most of the time when you go up in bullet weight you go down just a bit in powder to maintain accuracy. I believe its due to pressure going up from starting a heavier projectile moving and slightly more time for powder to burn before it can push that added weight out of the barrel.


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## poe

Thank you guys very much for the help. The bullet aligner for the barnes bullets I have does not have a spike but it is cut to have the same ogive (sorry If I cant spell) as the barnes expander bullet. When I get a chance to do some more shooting Ill try using that to seat the bullet all the way and see if that helps. I think Im also going to try the BH209 as the positives I keep hearing seem to outway the negatives. Its also a chance to try something new which I am a fan of. JL I have often wondered about dropping powder with a bullet of a higher weight as that is what centrefire rounds call for. The difference however with centerfire is you usually have to seat a bullet of I higher grain or length deeper into your case decreaseing the vollume inside of the case and therefor increasing presure. This is also why be very careful loading Bullets like the Barnes bullets in a centerfire round because a 160 ish gr lead bullet will have a different max load than a bullet of a similar gr made out of lead. Im sure Glad I broke down and got a muzzle loader it sure is fun to kind of start all over learning new things about guns.


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## JLowe69

I'm glad to have some answers instead of just questions all the time. So believe me, I'm glad to help. lol

As far as the tip I was surprised at how damaged the Powerbelts I normally shoot's tips were from not using a ram-rod tip that matches their shape, as they load easy. Even though the tip I use now isn't made for them it fits and is softish plastic, and I have two of 'em, so its what I use. Keep me posted on the BH209 if you would, because even though I like the Pyrodex 777 in my in-line, I don't really want to use it in my BP shot-shells and would like something even "cleaner". Well, and of course that would also give me a reason to experiment more with a different powder. Muzzle loaders are a lot of fun in my book, mostly because they allow for so much "testing" while not risking catastrophe quite as much.


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## JLowe69

poe, I just learned another reason why its better to use the 209 primers made specifically for ML's today, and wanted to pass it on to you. In addition to the standard 209's being a bit hotter, and making that ring thats so hard to get rid of when cleaning. They also create a bit more pressure and can actually dislodge a easy loading/lighter weight projectile just a bit before the powder ignites, causing pressure spikes that can wreak havoc on accuracy too.


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## poe

I have heared that also but Im hoping that I will be ok as the loads I have been testing have been fitting pretty tight but I guess time shall tell.


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## glenway

Some loading data is here... for Blackhorn.

Primer info from Blackhorn's site: We have experienced the best performance, consistency and accuracy with CCI 209M and Federal 209A. NOTE: DO NOT use 209 muzzleloading primers such as Winchester Triple 7, Remington Kleenbore, Federal Fusion, or CCI In-Line MZL.

*My experience*, however, with the CCI 209M is they foul my breech plug in 5 shots (using Triple 7) and did not ignite the Blackhorn powder on the first attempt with a clean breech plug. I'm still using the Triple 7 but would like to get away from it, because it is *soooo...* filthy. Also, it deteriorated in one year after opening to the point velocity dropped off well over 100 fps in one year. After purchasing a new pound of powder, the velocities came back. Moisture sets in immediately and that's something we can't get away from in Michigan.

An assessment from Chuck Hawks is here...

I may do some testing today or tomorrow with the stuff, but since our season opens Friday, I gotta go with what works - for now. Still a bit frustrated with all the hassle and performance issues but hope to get through it all before long.


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## JLowe69

Dang it, now I'm getting very curious about this primer issue, I will have to do an experiment with a primer and a Powerbelt with no powder charge here soon. I do know already that if you just drop a powder pellet down the bore and then shoot off a 209 it will send the pellet out of the barrel before it it can ignite fully and shoot a still burning pellet about 30 feet in the air traveling on a rather erratic spiraling path. Figured that out while living in FL. getting ready for a hog hunt, I wanted to foul the bore just a bit and make sure I got all the moisture out before loading it to go hunting in that ungodly humidity, but was in town and couldn't just shoot a standard load so I thought it would be a good idea. It worked but was quite a surprise as well.


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## glenway

Just sighted in and used the Remington Kleanbore muzzleloading primers, which according to the manufacturer are "the cleanest-burning muzzleloading primer ever!"

When finsihed shooting, I removed the breechplug and it was clean - unlike with other standard 209 shotshell primers. And, because breech plug fouling had become an issue for my Knight Revolution, I'm happy the issue is resolved. Grouped under an inch at 50 yards with 120 grains of 777 and gobs of parallax.


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## poe

has anyone tried different primers with the BH209


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## JLowe69

I've always used Pyrodex of one type or another poe, so no help here.

Glad you found some primers the work best for you glenway.


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## glenway

poe said:


> has anyone tried different primers with the BH209


That's one of my goals to figure out the best combination with BH209. I have the powder and would like to convert, based on what I understand about its properties, but our season begins tomorrow and I probably won't experiment now. Kinda wiish I had a spare muzzleloader to play with. I never seem to make time in the off-season for muzzleloader work and that needs to change.


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## ohiohunter88

tc encore nikon scope 110 gr of blackhorn 209 250 hornady sst


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## glenway

ohiohunter88 said:


> tc encore nikon scope 110 gr of blackhorn 209 250 hornady sst


How are the groups? What primer? Velocity?


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## ohiohunter88

grate groups each hole touching at 100 for the primer i use winchester 209 the ones in the blue box velocity is around 2,000fps or a little faster if you use 120 gr of blackhorn its 2,119fps


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## glenway

Thanks, OhioHunter. Some experimenting with Blackhorn is in order, because I'd really like to get away from all the black soot from the Triple 7.

Are the primers standard 209s or magnums?


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## ohiohunter88

i use to use 777 i gave it away when i got the blackhorn its cleaner and smokes less to and has more power good luck to you with 110gr of blackhorn i can put in in the same hole at 50 yds at 100 they all touch i can hit a chew can at 150 yd i let 2 of my buddys try sum its all they shoot now


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## ohiohunter88

the primers standard ones for shot shells the ones in a blue box


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## glenway

Thanks, OhioHunter. I thought the Blackhorn website mentioned that standard primers won't ignite the stuff and that magnum primers were needed. Guess not.

Are the Winchester primers burning clean and not fowling the flash channel or flash hole in the breech plug? Can you shoot a lot without worrying about ignition problems?


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## ohiohunter88

well last year i shot 20 shots in a row sighting in with out a problem i have always use the winchester primers


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## dwtrees

Got a solution to the primer problems, get a flintlock and you don't need a primer at all. Then there is only 1 little hole to poke clean every once and a while. I have shot my custom made flintlock over 30 times in a row using 3F Goex black powder - 70 grains, with a .490 patched round ball - spit patch in the warmer months and bore butter soaked patch in the winter. When the flint, or as we traditionalists call it, the rock gets dull, you just flake the end again and get back to shooting.

That combination will deffinately knock down the deer also. My round balls have an average weight of 172 gr. Those that I have recovered have averaged about 155 gr.


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## glenway

Not much of a traditionalist, and like most muzzleloader hunters today, don't want the mess, stench, fouling, cleaning, corrosion, etc. For me, modern in-line speed kills, and it makes up for the centerfire riflles we can't use for deer in my parts. They are truly humane and effective management tools. And, born to wear glass. Only sensible way to go for old eyes.


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## poe

I think it would be a lot of fun to use a old flintlack and patched ball to hunt deer but I to really enjoy not having all the mess. I did however get a ML as a little more of a challenge so I just am limiting my range to 150 yards for now and maybe later it will be less.


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## glenway

As long as we stay within our personal limits, it's all good. To each his own.


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## vtguy17

I shoot 300gr Hornady XTP (.45cal bullet, .50cal sabot) over 80gr of Pyrodex RS. Perfect load for my Traditions ML that I've found.


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## JLowe69

I have a sidelock Hawkins that gets some use as well, but the inline just works better so it sees much more use.


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## birdginski

TC Omega 150 grains of pyrodex with 245 grain powerbelt.Shot deer going away in the left rear quarter and found the bullet in 2 pieces in the base of his neck.Went right down.


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## vtguy17

Wow 150 grains with a 245gr bullet! That's a big load! (God that sounded gross...)

I shoot 80grains of pyro behind a 300 gr bullet it passes clean through a deer. 150 grains would pass through a deer and into the next county!


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## prairiewolf

I shoot the exact same load for elk(150 gr & 245 powerbelt)in my inline but then I use 90gr and a maxi ball in my TC Hawken for elk. Never hunted deer with a muzzle loader always going after the coues and I think a projectile that big might cut them in half, LOL


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## poe

today I went and took a few shots with the 240gr xtps out of my muzzle loader. They shot better groups than the 225gr ftx bullets but I found one that hardly even opened. I know I shot it through wood so that could have something to do with why it did not open I was just really amazed that this bullet held together so much. It went right through a log that was over 6 inches thick and then bounced off a tree and I found the bullet on the ground. Im sure they well work better on a deer but has anyone ever tried these bullets. I was using 2 pellets or 100gr of pyro at 100 yards. I took a picture beside a unfired bullet to compare.


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## JLowe69

I've used quite a few XTP's on deer and if anything they expanded a bit much, as in came apart when/if they "failed". I've never seen that poe, almost looks like it turned inward at impact and it made it compress rather than mushroom. However, like (I think at least) I pointed out in a previous post though, I super glued a BB in the hollow point of all of 'em after trying it on a whim to make a more aerodynamic projectile and I had great results. Shrank groups in my Knight by about 50% out at 100yds and beyond, but it does, due to the BB hardness I'd guess, tend to cause a greater upset in the front of the projectile. Sometimes splitting it.


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