# Need a gun smith in Az.?



## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Hey guys, I just wanted to let folks know that I have recently finished my classes and I'm now officially a certified gun smith. At this point due to our current federal governments practices however I don't feel safe getting an FFL. So I can not charge money for my services. I can how ever legally trade for them. So, if any of you who are in Az. are in need of basic gun work, and want to save yourself considerable money I would like to hear from you. I assure any one interested that I will be upfront on any jobs as far as how much experience I have in that particular field, including just flat out telling you "thats beyond my ability". I do however have quite a bit of things I am familiar with that I am willing to do for a small fraction of what the other places here in "the valley" would charge. Approximately 25% to 50% of the cost of the ones I have spoken to, most often closer to the 25% side. If someone wants to pick up a tool, or parts, or even ammo, to trade for the work I do. I am also available to come to your home and do most things while you watch if thats what you would prefer, or to provide a written "estimated insurance value" for your firearms should any one need that service. As some one who has had guns stolen, I can say first hand that it can make a bad situation worse when you have to deal with your insurance co. with out one. Please feel free to contact me with any questions, no job is too small. I can be contacted through this site, or at [email protected] or by phone at 602-531-0729.
Thanks and good luck out there.
Jeff Lowe


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

Sound like a good deal! I have sent all my money to prairiewolf lol. I will keep you in mind.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Congrats on getting your certification Jeff.


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## prairiewolf (Feb 19, 2012)

congrats ! and I will keep you in mind.


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## El Gato Loco (Jan 15, 2010)

Congrats.... I will keep you in mind too.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Thanks guys.


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

I would go ahead and get your FFL. IF the current administration would happen to get re-elected this November, there will be no further FFLs granted and our whole way of life (shooting sports) will change...........


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

220 swift, thats a good point. I'm thinking more about the target that having one puts on the center of your back at this point though. That and if I can find a shop to work for that has one I don't need one. Thanks though.


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## RWP45 (Aug 15, 2011)

JLowe69 said:


> Hey guys, I just wanted to let folks know that I have recently finished my classes and I'm now officially a certified gun smith. At this point due to our current federal governments practices however I don't feel safe getting an FFL. So I can not charge money for my services. I can how ever legally trade for them. So, if any of you who are in Az. are in need of basic gun work, and want to save yourself considerable money I would like to hear from you. I assure any one interested that I will be upfront on any jobs as far as how much experience I have in that particular field, including just flat out telling you "thats beyond my ability". I do however have quite a bit of things I am familiar with that I am willing to do for a small fraction of what the other places here in "the valley" would charge. Approximately 25% to 50% of the cost of the ones I have spoken to, most often closer to the 25% side. If someone wants to pick up a tool, or parts, or even ammo, to trade for the work I do. I am also available to come to your home and do most things while you watch if thats what you would prefer, or to provide a written "estimated insurance value" for your firearms should any one need that service. As some one who has had guns stolen, I can say first hand that it can make a bad situation worse when you have to deal with your insurance co. with out one. Please feel free to contact me with any questions, no job is too small. I can be contacted through this site, or at [email protected] or by phone at 602-531-0729.
> Thanks and good luck out there.
> Jeff Lowe


JLowe69. Welcome to the field of gunsmithing. Being one myself I would think hard about your FFL. I have mine and they are not going to get any easier to get. I'm sure you know there are restrictions on certain items you will not be able to purchase without one. Also there are many suppliers that will give you dealer cost if you have your FFL. I do not advertise, just word of mouth, and have more than I can take care of but have many times needed that FFL to complete my work. Good luck to you.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

RWP45, thanks for both the welcome and the advice.


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## Elad (Sep 16, 2012)

Congrats on the certification, and hello from a new member just a short trip above you in Prescott.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Thanks Elad, hopefully I will be even closer soon. Plan on moving to Prescott-Chino area soon, before the end of the year at least. Welcome to the site from another "newbe"


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## Elad (Sep 16, 2012)

I may even get to meet you. We can always use a gun smith in the area.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

I've talked to a couple smiths up there. The one I was mostly impressed by would be Hans, from Vang Comp. All his people seemed to be good folks as well. I'll make sure I contact you next time I get up there.


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## Elad (Sep 16, 2012)

I too have dealt with them and was pleased with the work and they all seem to be a great bunch. They really helped me out with my Rem. XP 100r pistol. I would enjoy meeting you sometime.....


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Doh, now we have to meet up. Its hard to find other hunting handgun enthusiasts. I'm in the Savage Stryker camp myself. I have a Gen. 1 chambered in .243win. What are you throwing out of your XP?


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## Elad (Sep 16, 2012)

It is the 100r and has 3 rounds in the mag. and is in 223. Now I have 2 guns that will handle the same rounds . I have a bye-pod for the Rem. so I guess I now have one for the rifle also. Going to enjoy the new second javie permit for a year. Maybe I will get real lucky. I can hunt in the Ham pistol hunt and then if there is any left over I can try for the rifle.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Sweet, they are a nice looking gun, I've not had a chance to shoot one but I know many swear by them. What type of bi-pod? I ask because I have a spare base for a Harris model that I no longer have, and you can have the base if it will work for you. It fastens on your sling swivel and the bi-pod attaches to it via a rod with a notch the sticks forward parallel to the barrel. Did you get my PM?


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## Elad (Sep 16, 2012)

I have a Harris bi-pod but don't think I will put it on the Savage. The cheap stock they have on this Axis has no strength in the forearm and would be pushing the barrel with a slight torque. Now my Rem. works great except I wish I had purchased the 9" instead of the longer one. Being short has disadvantages except sometimes I can get a good deal on a youth model.!!!!

Answ. PM.............thanks


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## Elad (Sep 16, 2012)

This is mine but it has a little different color pattern now. They sure belch out a lot of fire!!


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Ok as far as the mount, I'm in the same boat as far as youth models fitting better too,and very nice as far as the pic.


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## Tubby (Sep 26, 2012)

JLowe69 said:


> Hey guys, I just wanted to let folks know that I have recently finished my classes and I'm now officially a certified gun smith. At this point due to our current federal governments practices however I don't feel safe getting an FFL. So I can not charge money for my services. I can how ever legally trade for them.


Actually, no you can't. Trade is called "consideration" in legal terms and it's compensation which puts you in FFL territory. Do it right and get your FFL. The ATF does not mess around with this kind of stuff.



> I do however have quite a bit of things I am familiar with that I am willing to do for a small fraction of what the other places here in "the valley" would charge. Approximately 25% to 50% of the cost of the ones I have spoken to, most often closer to the 25% side.


Business aspect is you're leaving money on the table lowballing the competition. Furthermore, since you are attaching a value for your services, you're again under the radar for being compensated and must obtain an FFL. No house calls either. All activity must be done on the licensed premises.

You're getting into territory you don't want to be in. Don't get cute with the ATF. Be legit and be legal. Get your FFL if you want to be a gunsmith.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Well there you go. I guess there is one in every crowd. lol


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

He must work for Eric Holder! Lol this is Arizona I am sure you can fix a friends gun right! Best of friends azpredator...


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Exactly azp, my dear friend. I'm simply working within the confines of the existing BATF laws until my paperwork goes through. I'm NOT using gun smithing as a source of income, yet. When I do become a "business" and do it as a source of income, the rules I will have to follow as an FFL holder will be more strict. Or I may even choose to work at a shop and not renew it next year, as I don't need one to work for an FFL holder.


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

JLowe69 said:


> Doh, now we have to meet up. Its hard to find other hunting handgun enthusiasts. I'm in the Savage Stryker camp myself. I have a Gen. 1 chambered in .243win. What are you throwing out of your XP?


JLowe69 I would like to hunt with a handgun, I would have to stop spending all of my money on Ed,s calls.lol. the only hunting handgun I ever shot was a Thompson contender in 7mm Rem. I was only about 10 years old.


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

LOL SG...


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## prairiewolf (Feb 19, 2012)

No comment ! I have to go find that armored truck, if I am going to buy some bois de rose. LOL


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

prairiewolf said:


> No comment ! I have to go find that armored truck, if I am going to buy some bois de rose. LOL


You will need it after I am sure Ed! I think SG needs a custom set for himself..


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Don't suppose you would be willing to share the name of these sites before they run out of wood, would you SG.


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## christopher (Oct 10, 2010)

_http://www.bobsexoticwoods.com/servlet/the-583/BOIS-DE-ROSE-TURNING/Detail_


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Thank you chris. I have a set of grips for a .22lr-.22mag revolver and grips and a fore-arm for a .45lc-.410 that I need to get to work on. I have no idea what type of wood I'm going to use yet, let alone where to get it it. lol I have narrowed the color on the grips/forearm to a light color though, thinking maybe a curly maple. After looking at the Hawaiian koa (sp) blanks though I like them too.


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

JLowe69 said:


> Thank you chris. I have a set of grips for a .22lr-.22mag revolver and grips and a fore-arm for a .45lc-.410 that I need to get to work on. I have no idea what type of wood I'm going to use yet, let alone where to get it it. lol I have narrowed the color on the grips/forearm to a light color though, thinking maybe a curly maple. After looking at the Hawaiian koa (sp) blanks though I like them too.


 How about Ironwood? Its local!


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

This is not a picky customer, its for me. lol So I can use about anything, I just want some character to the wood and wood I can learn on. Iron wood sounds like it may be tough to work though, is it? I guess I'd rather use too soft a wood than too hard at first, till I get a better handle on things. Pun intended.


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## prairiewolf (Feb 19, 2012)

Eric, if you can get ironwood I will buy it !


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

prairiewolf said:


> Eric, if you can get ironwood I will buy it !


I have some friends in Tucson I know one that has a ironwood tree in his yard, he is always making something I will ask if he has some. Its been along time since I have talked to him! But I will try.


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## prairiewolf (Feb 19, 2012)

Ok, I was going to say, dont get caught getting it !! LOL


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

JLowe69 said:


> This is not a picky customer, its for me. lol So I can use about anything, I just want some character to the wood and wood I can learn on. Iron wood sounds like it may be tough to work though, is it? I guess I'd rather use too soft a wood than too hard at first, till I get a better handle on things. Pun intended.


Ironwood is a hard wood! Its so dense it sinks in water! Prairiewolf may be able to explain it better.


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

JLowe69, there is some pics of ironwood on a theread " desert ironwood pocket calls" check it out its some cool looking wood.


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

prairiewolf said:


> Ok, I was going to say, dont get caught getting it !! LOL


Is it illegal? Can't you get permit to gather it? Like fire wood?


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## prairiewolf (Feb 19, 2012)

I really dont know, I heard it was illegal but that may be gossip. I do know theres a place in Glendale that does sell it but charges to much !


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

prairiewolf said:


> I really dont know, I heard it was illegal but that may be gossip. I do know theres a place in Glendale that does sell it but charges to much !


I will keep an eye out for it. And will try to get in touch with my buddy in Picture Rocks.


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## Tubby (Sep 26, 2012)

JLowe69 said:


> Exactly azp, my dear friend. I'm simply working within the confines of the existing BATF laws until my paperwork goes through. I'm NOT using gun smithing as a source of income, yet.


Trading is a source of income, thereby putting you clearly in the position of needing an FFL as a gunsmith. Period. You cannot even have the customer buy the parts from you, they have to provide you with the parts themselves.



> When I do become a "business" and do it as a source of income, the rules I will have to follow as an FFL holder will be more strict.


Again, trading or receiving consideration for your services is doing it as a source of income. You don't have to make a profit, the ATF sees it as an attempt to make a profit.



> Or I may even choose to work at a shop and not renew it next year, as I don't need one to work for an FFL holder.


Correct, if you work under another's FFL, you yourself don't have to be licensed.

But if you wish to remain ignorant about this, be my guest. I provided correct information regarding the legality of this that you and others choose to ignore. I'm trying to make sure you stay legal for your sake. If you don't heed my advice or listen to someone that knows what they are talking about, trouble may come your way. Things are very different when you start dealing with the ATF. I've dealt with them for the 6 years I've been an 07/02 FFL/SOT. I know what I'm talking about. Good luck with your choice.


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

WOW! You don't need to be an jerk about it...


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## christopher (Oct 10, 2010)

just click on the report button and file for harassment


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

OK guys everyone has stated their stance on the subject so lets call it a draw and move on. We don't call names here or badger each other. Most of this thread would have been better served as PM's.


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## Elad (Sep 16, 2012)

Be careful and use a mask because Iron wood is toxic. I used a little of this when I was building bows. It sure is pretty as a set of grips. I have made a set of grips out of manzanita wood and they are also very pretty in the color and the grain department.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Ok, thanks azp, prairie wolf and Elad. I want two things from this particular project, to get better at it, and to see how much better I can make a couple butt ugly guns look for my portfolio at this point, so shouldn't be that tough to accomplish. I'm good as far as your suggestion as well Don.


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## hassell (Feb 9, 2010)

Thanks guys for toning it down.


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

Elad said:


> Be careful and use a mask because Iron wood is toxic. I used a little of this when I was building bows. It sure is pretty as a set of grips. I have made a set of grips out of manzanita wood and they are also very pretty in the color and the grain department.


Toxic, that's not good. Do you know if it's legal to collect Elad.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Well the .45/.410 is flat black so I'm leaning towards light wood, and after we had a good night Sat. snake hunting, I'm even thinking about inlaying the fore arm with a section of rattler skin, under some polyurethane. Then the .22lr/.22mag is nickel plated and that I thought a darker wood would be good for. Just not iron wood now that the toxic factor has been added. lol What are you guys thought as far as those match ups?
hassell, the civility level of this site is the main reason I'm here. Therefore, I will do my part to keep it civil, and positive.


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

JLowe69 said:


> Well the .45/.410 is flat black so I'm leaning towards light wood, and after we had a good night Sat. snake hunting, I'm even thinking about inlaying the fore arm with a section of rattler skin, under some polyurethane. Then the .22lr/.22mag is nickel plated and that I thought a darker wood would be good for. Just not iron wood now that the toxic factor has been added. lol What are you guys thought as far as those match ups?
> hassell, the civility level of this site is the main reason I'm here. Therefore, I will do my part to keep it civil, and positive.


JLowe69, ask one of the call makers about the wood. I don't like snakes! How about some gold inlay? I bought my daughter a Ruger new model six it had rosewood grips I sold it because it didn't have the 22 lr. Cylinder with it and Ruger wanted to much to send it back to time a new cylinder. So I got her a 10/22 take-down, she was upset because she wanted a new one. I did like the original rosewood grips on the stainless steel gun.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Thanks for the input, I'm getting better as far as the snakes and figured since much of its purpose was shooting 'em, it would be a good accent, and with a few coats of flooring grade polyurethane you wont be able to feel it. lol The revolver is an EEA so not as nice as a Ruger, but I think rosewood would go well with the nickel too. The grips for it will be the first attempt so it wont take much wood, at least in theory anyway. lol Depends on how many re-starts it takes me. I'll get with the call makers like you suggested.


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## prairiewolf (Feb 19, 2012)

I am going to call Arizona Ironwood today. I will ask them about the toxic question.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Ok, cool. Now I need to decide which to invest more into hand or dremmel type tools, I need more of both.


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## prairiewolf (Feb 19, 2012)

Ok, called Arizona Ironwood in Tucson. The guy said to wear a dust mask like any other wood , but it is NOT toxic. We talked about cocobolo and he said it was closer to being toxic then ironwood.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Thanks, so its back in as far as non-toxic. Still not sure if I want something that hard yet, but the color would be great. To many choices may have to make a couple sets for each. lol


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## christopher (Oct 10, 2010)

what about hedge (osage orange) i have alot of them around the place i need to cut out


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

I've heard thats like sassafras, if so it should have nice character. I have a piece of chinaberry thats good and dry/ almost kiln dried from being outside here. lol It's nothing fancy but its on hand, and easy to work with so it's probably the first victim. Are any of the osage orange dead so its dry already Christopher?


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## christopher (Oct 10, 2010)

yes i just found some more than enough for a couple pair of grips and maybe a couple dozen small calls


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Do you think it looks like sassafras, or aren't you familiar with sassafras where you're from?


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## christopher (Oct 10, 2010)

cant really say as i havent seen sassafras but isnt the root of it what they use to make rootbeer lol


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

The old kind at least. lol I found some osage on a wood site today and it was kinda like white oak with a orange hue, looked pretty good. They had some real nice ones but many were way pricey.


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

Jlowe69 there is a club here in town. Arizona Predator Callers they meet every 2nd. Thursday of the month in Mesa. I just posted some calls from prairiewolf I am giving to the club to raffle off. Goto Eds thread EW game calls...


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

Its only $5 admission for a non member. I think they are going to raffle off a rifle this month..


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

I wonder if we haven't already met then. I've been to a couple meetings there. One was an elk hunting seminar with an appearance from a F.and G. officer who tried to explain the new at the time rules about hunting in Maricopa parks.


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

Was it last year? I joined in Aug. Of this year.


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## JLowe69 (Nov 30, 2011)

Oh, ok. Yep it was about a year maybe 18 months ago. There was a couple guys there who brought their young daughters, and since you commented about bringing yours I got way ahead of the facts and started assuming. lol I do that occasionally.


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