# Trapping/Hunting Camp



## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

I have been asked to post a thread on how I put together my winter trapping camp. I suppose what I do hold true for a hunting camp.

I will not speak for a high country camps. All of my camps over the past 30 years have been on flatlands. Both desert and prairie.

Ill speak quickly about desert SW desert camping. I am not that experienced I have just done it a handful of time's. But in speaking to many of the residents on this site and some of my friends in the border patrol I still keep in contact with south of Tucson. I have just four words. DO NOT DO IT. The reason being is the cartels have grown and its just not safe. When I camped I was worried about the brown scorpions and mauve rattlers and they were bad enough, and it took preps and forethought to camp. Mostly because they were predictable. The cartels are a different matter.

If you look at my avatar my camping is mostly in the open and in the prairies. The reason I am in the prairies in the open is because of animal movement (I call it migration) during the breeding months and deep winter. I deliberately stay in the open and close to a major road. I want the animals to think I am my camp is just like all the other structures they see close to roads and highways. In fact most of the time it works so well in Nebraska the mule deer lay just a few feet from the tent in winter whether I have hay bale winds breaks or not. I think its because they feel secure, no different then the deer and range maggots hug the cities in the winter. Places like Thermopolis Wyoming for example. Yes I think some of it has to do with food also. However, I think it has more to do with security. My opinion of course.

My winter trapping camp is also placed where it is because I don't want to disturb areas I trap. Coyotes in winter often travel 10 to 15 miles per night if not more. 15 miles was the furthest I have ever seen one continuous track. When the kangaroo rats and voles start becoming scarce in the open areas movement takes coyotes to the forest and thick stuff. Sounds simple right. Well the trick is to camp far enough off these trails you don't disturb movement. But yet close enough you don't travel ten miles to the start of you line, as driving cost dollars. When I lay on my cot at night and I can hear soft barks and yips along with a little growling, I know I am in the right spot.

(Perhaps some of you did not know this but coyotes are like a farm dog. They are noisy when they move, and get noisier when they hunt in pairs. Almost like beagles, because they know if they can herd the animal away from their den with all that noise the better chance they can catch it. Plus if its a jack or cottontail, endurance wise they have any of their prey beat so its a matter of time. ) A man can learn allot laying in his cot and listening some 90 nights per year.

Sorry for the distraction about coyotes. Okay you selected a spot now what. Just like summer camping you look for a level spot..NOT!! I like a spot that has about a 1-4 rise at the head if my cot. Read the hint ...set your cot up before you set the tent. The reason being is if it snows and remains cold the snow will blow between your drop cloth and tent floor. Eventually that snow will melt and you don't want that water to freeze as it makes it a real pain when you tear down. Forget that boy scout crap also about digging a trench around the outside of the tent. So it's best to have a slope when you set up, besides you'll only be in the tent for sleep and eating. You won't hardly notice it.

Set up your tent. For tent stakes I use 1/4 inch rebar with a loop in the end. They are 3 feet long. I drive them in just 6 inches or so, however. I have learned that winter is you friend and enemy. I say this as for winter can and does hold your steaks in. Drive them in and poor water on them if you in sandy areas, if its clay/loamy no need they will freeze in. As you can imagine winter is your enemy when pulling stakes. I have had stakes in so tight even the hay forks on the back of the ranch truck won't pull them until spring. However a high lift jack will. Cant figure out why after all these years but its a fact. Thus comes in the long stake. If its short you cant hook on, if it's too long it will just bend. Also if its too short you cant bump it with a hammer. So if you camp in the witter you'll need one more tool. A high lift jack.

Last word on stakes, I have considered using earth anchors. and just cutting the cable. But that still means I need another tool and thats bolt cutters to camp.

Heat in the camp is important, but sleeping bags are more important. Heat is important for cooking and sleeping. However I don't like propane and I don't use a generator. Propane to me is dangerous unless you have an electric fan forcing air. acoss a separate chamber. I know many are going to argue, but how many people die each fall/winter from CO issues in tents. Wood stoves are the perfect tent stove in my mind. Burnable material is everywhere. Yes dried cow pies work I tried them once just for the sake of it. Also you don't need a huge fire to heat tents. In fact once you get coals and adjust the damper and inlet air...a single log as big as your stove can hold will last 4-5 hours.

Your sleeping bag after 5 hours becomes your friend. Here the scenario,

1) You heat the tent with the stove to lates say 75 degrees at minus 5.

2) Before you settle in to eat dinner, you open you sleeping bag and let it start warming, then you settle in to eat supper.

3) By the time you eat, clean the dishes (put paper plates in the stove) and do a quick sponge bath with the water thats heating on the stove after you cooked the stove.

4) Your ready for bed. Now your sleeping bag has the all day chill out of it and its nearly warm.

5) In 5 hours that sleeping bag at 98.2 degrees inside will be all you need to keep you going till dawn.

About sleeping bags. Forget those nylon ones that claim to keep you warm at -20. I say forget them because all they do is slide around on a cot. What you want is a military bag, one that is rated to save your life at -30. Be mindful military sleeping bags are rated at saving lives not keeping you warm. Trust me they will be warm to - 10, but then they get chilly. To keep them warm at below this I do the unusual. My cot top is lined with two quilted moving blankets. (cheap at 3-5 bucks each). When it gets to -10 out comes a a 72 x 80 large one. (~ 10 bucks at harbor frieght). Now since I have a cloth outside instead of a nylon outside that extra blanket will indeed keep me warm...not just save my life.

The only time I get cold is my age driven time to pee. Which brings up another item. The Toilet. I actuall have two. One is for peeing and its nothing but a 2.5 gallon pail. The second is a bucket with a toilet seat on it. The one I have is brand named the Luggable Lou. The pee bucket is next to the foot of the cot. That way I can get out, grab the bucket do my thing and get back to the sleeping bag without much loss of heat. If your concerned about smell pout in two caps of lysol. For the Luggable Loo, it is lined with a plastic bag. Also it has been given a couple of teaspoons of Rid EX. To get it all going I throw in table scraps. On top of that I add peat moss. It's a poor man's composting toilet that works well, just don't put outside where severe cold will freeze it. Does it smell, mine never has and I think its because after I go I throw in the TP and throw in some more peat moss or grass. Remembr to I feed it with table scraps and never ever add any liquid. I know going number two means just that. Pee and POOP, so how do I keep the pee out, it take practice and my pee bucket has a pour spot!

Thats allot of words...but thats how I camp in the winter...

Larry


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## hassell (Feb 9, 2010)

Interesting read, thanks for sharing.


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## Mo Mo (Sep 16, 2016)

Thanks. Excellent write up.


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## pokeyjeeper (Sep 5, 2013)

great write up thanks for sharing


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## prairiewolf (Feb 19, 2012)

Looks like you have it figured out. One reason I moved to my hunting area, sleep in my own bed and use a warm bathroom, lol


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

I am hoping in a couple of weeks Ill have a warm bed and bathroom also. If you recall last winter was a ruff one in my tent, 50mph winds for a few days straight @-6. I don't believe if I was younger I would of minded it. However the wind was rattling the chimney on the stove so much I was concerned I'd fall back asleep to wake up to a tent fire. Moved the stove and took off the chimney in the wee hours in my underwear. No fun halling a 40lb very warm stove outside thru two canvas doors. But as I said, my military sleeping bag was warmed up and I crawled bag in with hardly a shiver. It was -6 that night.

No more wind issues on the Prairie. I finally started building the Trapping Vardo this weekend. Today I'll finish a complete rewire of the new lights and electric brakes on my 25 year old flatbed car trailer.

Menards had Red Cedar- Tongue and Groove for $5 dollar per board discount last week; I went for it. So with the exception of some AC2 Treated 2x4's on the base along with a AC2 Treated Plywood floor it should be mostly made out of Red Cedar with a Arched Steel Roof. The size will be ~ 8' x 12' on the outside give or take an inch. Inside height will be 6'5",

Also my timing was perfect. When I was driving to pick up my grandson last Thursday (school was out because of the flood); Rosie a neighbor was having some windows replaced. Good old Rosie offered me 5 complete sashes , all for the cost of conversation, a smile and a hug! Rosie and her husband are 87.

The tent stove be installed and will warm the Vardo when I return from the field as I'll use it for cooking and heating bath water. My old 1500 watt Yamaha generator will then keep it warm for the next 6 hours with an thermostatically controlled electric chicken coop heater. The Yamaha will burn a little more than 1/2 gallon gas in 6 hours. Next season Ill complete the interior and install insulation. Thus I may not need the generator that much. I don't want to complete the interior until I complete a season and determine the best layout.

Yes Ill have a 2' x 3' restroom inside and I'll build in the Luggable Loo which I have learned to compost human waste and table scraps. For now still use a pee bucket at night. Inside the restroom and hung at shoulder level, will be a 5 gallon jerry can so I can gravity feed water to to the sink within and the cooking area. Thus no outside water to freeze or worry about.

My bed will be a twin bed mattress I have kept for just this occasion for 5 years. But with my plans I can still add two cot's for guest.

Larry

here is what my build is modeled after:


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## prairiewolf (Feb 19, 2012)

Larry, do you have an estimsted weight for something like that ?


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

How does ~3370 lbs sound. That weight is about what the old Suburban will pull down the road. It includes the Trailer, the Trapping Vardo CABIN and Additions needed to make it livable. If it were not for the trailer and I would add a frame and hitch to the Cabin it would weigh the nearly the same as a 13' Foot Scamp Fiberglass Trailer costing $10,000 for a 2000 year model.

About cost...I frankly do not know where these tiny house people on TV come up with their cost at $10-25K for something similar. I will be less than $800 in materials for the finished Trapping Vardo Cabin. Should I have bought a new wood stove, mattress, kitchen equipment, for etc. plus an expensive dickson boat heater at $900.00. I could build a super super nice Vardo less than $2,000.

Last comment, my build is is planned around me removing the cabin any time I want. Very similar to taking a truck slide in camper off. Except with my low trailer plus the 2x6 flat skids on the floor mine will just slide off to the ground instead of side jacks. When you want to put it back on. Merey jack up the front and back up slowly. The skids won't be as high, but on the farm we had a similar system set up for large portable hog house's. Of course no loading on a trailer for tem instead we just hooked on and drug with a chain.

I know this is longer than heck. But hey it gave me a chance to write down my numbers again and confirm my design, Thanks for asking Prairriewolf!

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*BARE BONES WEIGHT - ** 2850 lbs.*

The trailer, (twin axle, 4 brakes, wood deck) weighs ~ 1650 lbs.

The Cabin shell weight, (wood, windows, door, window/door hardware and toilet enclose. All based on Menards shipping values per piece comes in at 1200lbs.

Be mindful Red Cedar is light...a 1" x 6" x 12' long piece of carsiding weighs just 6.7lbs.

I think Im pretty accurate at 2850 lbs.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Additions:*

*EST Total ............ 513 lb*

Stove - 45 lbs

Chimney- 15 lbs

Twin Mattress - 75 lbs

5 gallons Water/Container (8.36lbs/gal) 45 lbs

Generator - 53 lbs

Favorite Cast Iron Skillet and Dutch Oven - 40lbs

Cooking Utensils - 5 lbs

Sponge Bath Wash Tub - 35 lbs

Folding Table w/chair - 45 lbs

QTY 2 Cabela's Extra Large Cots and Moving Blankets - 75 lbs

Mechanical Skinner w/deep cycle battery - 125lbs

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Comparicons of Trapping Vardo Cubic Feet vs my Spike Tent.

Estimated Trapping Vardo Shell Cubic Feet 12 x 7 average height 6 ............ 561 cubic feet.

Tent Shell 10 x 10 average height 7 feet........ 700 cubic feet


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## knapper (Feb 5, 2010)

Looks like a nice setup, be sure to get some air so you don't let the O2 levels get too low.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

knapper said:


> *Looks like a nice setup, be sure to get some air so you don't let the O2 levels get too low.*


*That is a great point! Thank you!* I should of put that in the first post. Even with a canvas tent that breaths, let the fresh air in no matter how cold!

Even if its electric heat you should open a window. Especially for two or more in a small space. Every submariner knows what CO2 does, it makes you stupid and gets worse as you age!

Don't believe me look at what Lawrence Livermore Labs have to say:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/10/17/claim-co2-makes-you-stupid-as-a-submariner-that-question/

Better to awaken cold than to never awaken! Also you cannot fix stupid!


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## prairiewolf (Feb 19, 2012)

Thanks Larry, almost makes me want to sell the motorhome and build one, lol but then I am forgetting how soft I have become in old age !!!


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

A brave soul you are, Larry.

Hopefully, my tent-camp days are behind me but it sure brings back memories.

My way to keep warm in an unheated tent at 0 degrees was to sleep on a closed-cell pad using 2 sleeping bags. No issues. Keeping things from freezing was an issue, so we kept some water in a cooking pot and heated it on a stove.

Good luck with your adventure, once again!


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Prairriewolf, I understand completely. 5 years ago we rented a motorhome for two weeks and fished Alaska. I believe my favorite item on the camper was that darn electric awning. Push a button and instant rain and sunshade I loved it.

Glen, good info on the sleeping bags, thanks for the add! Adventure no! HEAVEN yes! First off there are no neighbors for 20-30 miles. You have to listen to the always curious mule deer sniff the camp at night and coyotes talking among themselves as they hunt and walk. You often hear bobcats kittens still making noise for their moms who abandoned them 15 miles from their birth dens.

Every Friday you are invited to a the local carpenter's shop at 5pm sharp to drink beer and catch up on ranch life. Then you go to the local cowboy bar for a huge porterhouse and hear how "the Smiths" kids are doing in sports or school.

Of course waking up to fresh snow the scent of the cleanest air anywhere except maybe Antarctica is always a tough one too.

Glen its not an adventure it's 3 months of living in heaven.

Now if I were a real modern man I would invite guest and charge them $500.00/night. But I suppose the old fart in me still says, hey come and join me for a few days, week or month its always free. BTW I dont blab like this when I am out there...blabbing and studying terrain don't mix! :greedy: :greedy: :greedy:


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

OK, then. A heavenly adventure it is.

Very cool.


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Here was my ATV around 35 years ago. Went everywhere in the gas Rabbit. Off road like it was made for the trails.

Two-man tent with my pal, Frank, at camp in northern Lower Peninsula Michigan. No heat, wool blanket on the tent floor, closed cell pads, and two sleeping bags. Absolutely no issues at 0 degrees, which was the low at night on this trip.

In the summer to fall, I'd strap a Jon boat on the top of the Rabbit and hit the lakes.

Sold that car with 220,000 miles for $1,000 and the guy thought he should have given me more. Not sure he got a look at the underneath of the oil pan. I think it held a bit less than the manual indicated.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Indeed rabbits were good little cars Glen. We bought one for our daughter, it was a diesel. Only vehicle I have ever bought that got a real 48 mpg and never had a mechanical issue. Thanks for sharing the photo.

Larry


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