# Stupid Game Laws



## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

I was sitting at the table with fellow outdoorsmen and we discussed stupid game laws. Since the folks at the table were from various parts of the country, I wanted to compile them.

Now, I want to put together the best of the best (or, is it worst of the worst?) and am hoping you may have one to share - along with conservation enforcement, if possible, and any relevant comments.

I'll be sure to share the piece when finished. Should be fun.


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## sneakygroundbuzzard (Nov 1, 2012)

glen,i will go thru my regs manual and see what i can find for here in mn

if i find anything thats just plain asinine i will let you know


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## fr3db3ar (Aug 6, 2011)

How about the states that allow you to hunt at night but you can't use a light. That's one of my favorites.


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

That's fine, Fred, but I need the actual regs and the state to be accurate. How about Michigan's law to protect coyotes?


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

I'm not sure if this fits. A scheduled cut to licensing fees, here in NY, was designed to look like an apology for the safe act. However, funding for public hunting grounds and Econ officers comes directly from licensing fees. Thanks?


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Sounds like a backdoor attack to limit opportunities, thus putting more hunters in less space (safety issue) and raising the frustration level causing more hunters to give up.


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

Unless they have a new source for funding the program then.... Funding cut in sheeps clothing.


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## JTKillough (May 4, 2010)

I was going to hunt New Mexico for Pronghorn this year, until I found out that can no longer hunt the entire game management unit. If you put in for any rifle hunt, the NMG&F assigns you to a specific ranch to hunt on. Thus eliminating any scouting time that you have put in and limiting your scouting time to 4 months. Big surprise when you scout your assigned ranch and there are few antelope.


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## JTKillough (May 4, 2010)

I decided to look into this again and in the new 2014-15 regs, it states that hunters, companions, or guides will be given access to scout your assigned ranch two days prior to the start of your hunt. That's all. That's a huge chunk out of your scouting. And I said forget it, thinking I had to limit my scouting to 4 months.


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Thanks guys.

So, JT, what it sounds like is that New Mexico doesn't want hunters to be successful. Just wondering how much are non-resident pronghorn tags? Do you know what the thought process was when making this regulation?

How about rephrasing the question: Has anyone been ticketed for a hunting infraction over some obscure law? Or, one that was written so poorly that it was misunderstood innocently?


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## hassell (Feb 9, 2010)

Geez JT, hunting pronghorn just about takes as much pre-scouting time as going for sheep- the great sheep hunters spend mega weeks in the Mtns. scouting them out.


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## JTKillough (May 4, 2010)

All total $364 for the hunt. This includes the tag, hunting licences, habitat stamp, and access validation. The only reason I can think of (and this is just my opinion) is that ranchers got sick of folks trashing their place and were wanting to close it off to hunting. You can't blame them for getting sick of finding trash on their place. This would seal up vast tracts of land as ranches in NM can be huge. The state came up with the solution to limit the amount of folks and time spent on the land in order to continue harvesting pronghorn. At the same time, use the land owners as a watchdogs in order to better manage what hunters are doing to that land. Pronghorn (not elk, deer, bighorn) hunts are the only hunts that require you to hunt assigned property. Although I haven't talked with any game officials in that state, I can't think of any other reasoning for this thought other than this. I am not inclined to think that they would want to make hunting harder for any reason, or to make hunters unsuccessful. This is a way for the game and fish to keep gates open to hunting, albeit overkill. Arizona has many areas that you must "sign into". Along the road going into certain ranches you will find a "sign in gate" and by way of the honor system, you must sign in and state your purpose for being there. The reason for this is that hunters would trash up the ranch property, tear up roads, leave gates open, and generally cause a ruckus. This is a quick fix and easy way for ranchers to monitor who is using their property. In my opinion, it works great, and is no bother for me to sign in. It also keeps those whom have no respect from ruining it for others. New Mexico has just taking it a step too far by eliminating that valuable scouting time and assigning hunters to certain areas within the management unit. Maybe they should consider the very successful "sign in gates".


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## dwtrees (Mar 5, 2012)

North Dakota has a regulation that states, Night hunting for coyotes is allowed from December 1st (not sure of the start date) until March 31st. But you can not use an artificial light, night vision equipment or infra red equipment.

Better hope there is snow on the ground and a really bright full moon.


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Thanks, DWT. That's the kind of nonsense I'm looking for.

Like my friend in West Virginia states that one governmental entity allows burning, but only in the daylight hours. Another entity requires burning after dark.


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## NattyB (Jan 5, 2012)

Glen, Great question. The results should have some humor.

PA had a "Must display license on back" until recent. As if someone would "get our number" as we were fleeing the scene. I stopped wearing my license years ago, because I got tired of back-tracking to locate it. Usually it came off during some tracking/trailing job. (We have multi-flora rose in Pa which rips everything off including your skin.) Anyway our PGC finally repealed the law.

I will try to come up with a few...

Here we go, but I'll have to write a thesis. * Many states allow in-line muzzleloaders and shotgun slugs, but prohibit centerfire rifles. In-line muzzleloader bullets and shotgun slugs will penetrate more that than some centerfire highly frangible, higher speed projectiles.* *Actual ballistics and bullet construction are often absent from these laws. Even in my County you cannot shoot a .223 HP, but you can shoot a 12 gauge slug which will penetrate 2 car doors. The .223 HP will not. *

* ...There's a can-o-worms. *


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

It's illegal to shoot a camel in Arizona, Cobras to. I guess I'll be in trouble if i run into a Cobra.


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## JTKillough (May 4, 2010)

If you see a Camel, you've had enough Cobra's! Just say'in.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

NattyB said:


> Glen, Great question. The results should have some humor.
> 
> PA had a "Must display license on back" until recent. As if someone would "get our number" as we were fleeing the scene. I stopped wearing my license years ago, because I got tired of back-tracking to locate it. Usually it came off during some tracking/trailing job. (We have multi-flora rose in Pa which rips everything off including your skin.) Anyway our PGC finally repealed the law.
> 
> ...


I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say their thinking on not allowing center fire rifles is the distance they will travel over a ML or shotgun.


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

I did some research on the subject of banning certain firearms/calibers for certain game in certain areas of certain states as part of my testimony at a Michigan House of Representatives hearing two years ago. The state of Virginia commissioned a study and it was not centered on how far a particular firearm/caliber may shoot; rather, the focus was on richochets. As Natty says, bullets and ballistics are hard to predict when it comes to richochets, because of angles and what a bullet may strike if the game is missed.

The science gets a bit murky so the politicians just ban stuff so they don't have to think too hard.

And, game officials argue for simplicity, so they don't get confused.


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## catcapper (Feb 11, 2010)

Yep--- not too hard to confuse a bunny cop. :sheep:

awprint:


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## hassell (Feb 9, 2010)

glenway said:


> I did some research on the subject of banning certain firearms/calibers for certain game in certain areas of certain states as part of my testimony at a Michigan House of Representatives hearing two years ago. The state of Virginia commissioned a study and it was not centered on how far a particular firearm/caliber may shoot; rather, the focus was on richochets. As Natty says, bullets and ballistics are hard to predict when it comes to richochets, because of angles and what a bullet may strike if the game is missed.
> 
> The science gets a bit murky so the politicians just ban stuff so they don't have to think too hard.
> 
> And, game officials argue for simplicity, so they don't get confused.


So very true.


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## jimmy shutt (Jun 2, 2013)

I heard about the messing with skunk ape law, looking into, it was proposed but never brought into law. so we can mess with them...


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Here we go, but I'll have to write a thesis. * Many states allow in-line muzzleloaders and shotgun slugs, but prohibit centerfire rifles. In-line muzzleloader bullets and shotgun slugs will penetrate more that than some centerfire highly frangible, higher speed projectiles.* *Actual ballistics and bullet construction are often absent from these laws. Even in my County you cannot shoot a .223 HP, but you can shoot a 12 gauge slug which will penetrate 2 car doors. The .223 HP will not. *

* ...There's a can-o-worms. *

Natty,

I was mistaken about the state that commissioned the study about your query (above). It was none other than Pennsyalvania!

The study doesn't use much of a comparison of bullet types or calibers, but it found the .30-06 to be less dangerous than shotgun slugs - at least the type they used in the test relative to ricochets, but it all depends. Way too many variables to come to any good conclusions, but here is a link:

http://lbfc.legis.state.pa.us/reports/2007/168.PDF


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## NattyB (Jan 5, 2012)

Glen, Thanks for the link. When I get some time, I will read the study.

The issue of "What type of firearm/round allowed" is a legitimate question when hunting in suburban areas. For my work, we are very concerned about ricochets, over penetration, etc. We've done plenty of tests on various mediums: Glass/wood/wallboard/steel/vehicles/etc and found the .223HP is highly frangible and poorly penetrates many of the mediums. Whereas, a slug is a slug and is like the Bull barreling through the China shop. Why they are so highly regarded for LE and Special Regs areas has always puzzled me. (I do use slugs with the boys when Deer hunting in special regs areas, but to say I'm selective about our shots would be an understatement.)

My point is a .204-.243 type caliber with a frangible bullets would generally be safer than such a larger slug which likely stays in-tact after 1st impact.

I'll offer an other. The Federal (And PA) Law which plugs shotguns to a 3 shell capacity. ...May be this is a check on the old market-hunter days, but they already have a bird limit set. You still can't shoot over your limit. I always found, when water-fowling the 3 shell limit, just taught me to reload quicker. There were a few times when I wished I had the 2 extra shells right then to clean up cripples, before the dog had to do the chase, dive and bob for duckles.


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## NattyB (Jan 5, 2012)

OK,

*Glen has now emboldened me!* Bout page 45 of the study concludes than a .30-06 shooting a 150 GRN bullet is less dangerous than a 12 gauge saboted .50 cal slug when fired on level terrain. While I'm NOT a fan of large centerfires in special regs areas, it just goes to show that a little bit of research might show something better for public safety and for hunting. I wish the study considered rounds in the light centerfire for additional comparison. The study does mention the differences in bullet construction.

Don't worry, not selling my slug barrels anytime soon.


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

I'll offer an other. The Federal (And PA) Law which plugs shotguns to a 3 shell capacity. ...May be this is a check on the old market-hunter days, but they already have a bird limit set. You still can't shoot over your limit. I always found, when water-fowling the 3 shell limit, just taught me to reload quicker.

Good point, Natty.


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Deer Trail, Colorado....sells Drone hunting licenses? Does that count?

What are the regs?


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## NattyB (Jan 5, 2012)

Here's Another: In Pennsylvania "*There is NO Sunday Hunting"...except for Crows and Fox.* This is a left-over from our old "Blue laws". I don't know what the "Blue" refers to, but it's rooted in the Christian tradition of "No work on Sundays". Pa was founded by the Quakers (William Penn) and a few of the Blue laws still remain.

They made an exception for Fox hunting. Before you callers get all excited, it's not your/our group that was being considered, rather the real wealthy Gents wearing BLK tights, Red Jackets riding horses crying "Tally Ho" after a pack of 40 some Walkers. South-Eastern PA, especially Chester County, has an old tradition of "The Hunt". No you're not invited.

I suppose Crows got on the list because no one really hunts them and there is a Federal mandate that the season can only be open X number of days per year. (Learned that right here on this site.)

I have to admit, I thought it strange to hunt on Sunday in some other states I've hunted. In Iowa, we hunt after church.

No Sunday hunting in PA gets lots of criticism...and I have to admit if I worked 8-4, M-F, I would criticize it too. It's always been that way some our odd law seems like "The Norm" to me. You all will probably get a laugh.


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## fr3db3ar (Aug 6, 2011)

I also love the "no semi-auto" hunting in PA. Not for any game at all. (Born and raised there btw)

Sent from somewhere in the space time continuum.


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## Undead (Jul 3, 2013)

glenway said:


> Deer Trail, Colorado....sells Drone hunting licenses? Does that count?
> 
> What are the regs?


No limit, except for those being flown by the feds, those are off limits.


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Even Pennsylvania may be changing its Sunday hunting ban.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/06/us_judge_kills_lawsuit_challen.html


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## fr3db3ar (Aug 6, 2011)

It would be nice if they also lifted their semi-auto ban. It's just silly.

Sent from somewhere in the space time continuum.


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## NattyB (Jan 5, 2012)

Fred,

I agree. It doesn't make sense...on the other hand there is a sea of ORNG descending on the woods come that Monday after Thanksgiving. They close schools and stuff for opening day of Buck season....Suppose they want a little more space between the bangs. I think they're afraid of a "bum-fire" rig showing up.

Glen,

I think you're the most In-The-Loop guy I know when it comes to outdoor/hunting issues. Thanks for all the updates.

**I just read in the 2014 PA Hunting Annual: You are allowed to hunt Coyotes on Sunday's also. So, maybe they were thinking about the Predator Talk guys!


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## fr3db3ar (Aug 6, 2011)

Natty I was thinking more of predators and small game than deer.

Sent from somewhere in the space time continuum.


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## NattyB (Jan 5, 2012)

Gotcha. Semi-autos for predators is a no-brainer. I usually have the woods to myself after Deer season.


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## Fitz (Jul 12, 2012)

catcapper said:


> Yep--- not too hard to confuse a bunny cop. :sheep:
> awprint:


Ha ha ha bunny cop!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## catcapper (Feb 11, 2010)

One of Colorados famed stupid laws is--- a person can not hunt bears unless they have a deer or elk license.

Talk about milk'in folks for more money.

awprint:


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## Beta (Mar 3, 2014)

Must be a typo, but in my regs book it says:

"May not set any body gripping trap with a jaw opening greater than 6-1/2" and less than 7-1/2.. " What the?? lol


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Dysleksia?


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## Beta (Mar 3, 2014)

Perhaps!


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## NattyB (Jan 5, 2012)

PA has a foot hold trap law that says no greater than 6.5 inches. The only problem is non of us know if it's inside or outside spread. Lams make a big difference. Most states go by inside... Huh? I dunno?


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