# Hunters against Trappers



## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

From the Star Tribune...

http://www.startribune.com/ruffed-grouse-society-supports-minnesota-trapping-bill-to-reduce-dog-deaths/298486391/

The national Ruffed Grouse Society has come out in support of a controversial bill in the Minnesota Legislature that would restrict the use of body-gripping traps in an attempt to reduce accidental dog deaths.

Gary Zimmer, an RGS coordinating biologist in Wisconsin, said the issue is a big one for many Ruffed Grouse Society members in Minnesota.

"There have been bird dogs killed and injured by traps, and we're trying to correct that situation to make it good for trapping and for bird dogs in the woods,'' he said.

"I've heard from many members who say they quit hunting when the trapping season starts,'' Zimmer added.

"It would not allow meaningful trapping in Minnesota," Gary Leistico, an attorney representing the Minnesota Trappers Association, told legislators recently.

The conservation group, which has about 16,000 members, including 2,100 in Minnesota, issued a statement Thursday supporting most of the provisions in the bill, SF1325, authored by Sen. John Hoffman, DFL-Champliain.

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Never in my life would I think a national hunting organization would go so far to denounce trapping and then go public to say trappers kill dogs! I would like to congratulate the RGS for adding fodder to the ant's hunting trapping groups quest to kill our rights and for aiding in killing a tradition that this United States of America is founded on.

Larry


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

I've seen two dogs caught in foot hold traps one never healed well enough to return to the field the other missed a whole season. Both of these incidents were close to town but in an area that was legal for hunting. As someone who has run bird dogs for many years I get the concern. There must be a happy medium somewhere.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Don,

My issue is now we have one outdoor group publicly going against another outdoor group. In this case RGS and the US Trapping Association.

FYI, I feel your concern also with hunting dogs running in the field as all trappers do. As you know I will run traps in Nebraska this year and there I flag the set with one of those underground marking flags and spray paint the fence post ('s) in the area to announce their presence so ranchers can keep their cattle dogs clear. It works.

I don't have an immediate solution but should another incident like this occur where one outdoor group goes publicly against another we may as well call the anti hunting/trapping/fishing groups and ask them what they want us to do next.

In retrospect I smile as wolves in Wisc and Minn have killed more hunting dogs then traps.

Remember...coyotes can;t fly.

Larry


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

I understand perfectly Larry, and agree that this should not be happening. That's why I say that a solution needs to be found between the two groups.

lol Coyotes CAN'T fly or they DON'T fly....... Just because they don't doesn't meant they can't, but if they can't then they don't for good reason.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Don,

I am almost regretting posting this. As I thought most of the afternoon aand wonder if I am adding fuel to the fire also?

BTW....You must be as old as Iam... as your humor is understood. I like the old stuff you have about Bobe Hope, Johnny Cash and Kevin who? hahahahah

Hers another one......."*I think if the coyote were human; most of them would be in jail" *

Remember.."coyotes can not fly!"

Larry


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

I think I must be at least 25 to 30 years younger than you Larry.............yes I'm nearly sure of it.

.................Canis latrans lives matter


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## hassell (Feb 9, 2010)

Some of the trappers around here will set up a sign for the area - road entrances, trail's, etc. with dates the trapping will occur, the cat hunters with hounds still go into the area's knowing that it is an active trapping area. Smart trappers will not set up a line around people, pet area's.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Don and Hassel...let's change the title of this thread it's just points fingers and I don't want that as it never solves anything. Let's say this instead "Newspaper pitting hunters against trappers." That allows readers to generate their own opinion.

Also I apologize to all hunters,,,as a trapper and hunter I never intended to point fingers. I just see a serious issue here for both sides and we cannot afford any issues that some may capitalize on.

Thank you

Remember...coyotes can't fly

Larry


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

there was a similar issue back in the mid 1970's in Iowa between the raccoon hunters and the trappers but that was when fur prices were very high ( $45.00 raccoon) but that got worked out between the State Associations.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

I remember that,

I wish those days of high raccoon prices were back. I fear the high population will cause other issues to not just the raccoon but other animals, The raccoon started moving 2 weeks ago and some roadsides have as many as 3-4 raccoons dead per mile. Shame the buzzards have already migrated through.


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## jimmy shutt (Jun 2, 2013)

tough issue for sure, I caught the farmers dog in Maryland when I first rented the farm house.....he was pissed, it was a very short trapping carrier!!!

wanting to set steel around a Pheasant/Rabbit Hunting area at the edges of the fields, waiting till the small game season is over. going to set back in the woods by the creek for raccoons, muskrats and mink maybe a beav, there are a ton of logs crossing the creek, going to set at the ends of the logs to avoid an accidental catch drowning someone's hunting dog situation. we have to share the woods, we as trappers must trap ethically and smart to avoid the negative light.

good post Duckmaster....aghhh I have seen Coyotes fly, the episode where Wile E Coyote bought the Acme Rocket Booster Pack to catch the Roadrunner, didn't work out so good but he was air born for a wee bit!!!!


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Fortunately I doubt Ill ever catch a domestic dog as where I trap as it's pretty remote. I dont trap Iowa canines anymore as its easier just to call them. Besides there fur like eastern coyote fur is nominal is cost when compared to western coyotes.

Hey I said Coyotes can't fly...not Wile E Coyote :naughty: good try though...hahahahah

Remember...coyotes can't fly

Larry


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## Ruger (Jan 22, 2011)

I remember when I was a youngun when my dad was trapping he would ever so often catch one of the local houndsman's dogs. My dad would turn the dog loose and load it into the back of the pickup and carry it around until he ran into the houndsman. Never any cross words, just a mutual respect of each other. But that was back in the day when people respected others and did their best to help each other out, and treated your neighbor as you wished to be treated.


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

and things WERE better then, respect is the main thing missing in today's society............


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Ruger...I had a pretty long thread on injury to dogs by steel traps. But I erased it. A shorter version is this. As you said your Dad would release them and that's what happens. Biologist have been catching coyotes in dirt hole set a for a long time using steel jawed traps with nearly 100% release rate and very little damage to the coyote. (yes some had the springs weakened or jaws softened with rubber hose attached.) I know a few cat trappers that if they a juvenile of kitten they just let it go (carefully cats will come back on you).

I am sure steel traps cause allot of pain, but seldom do they break bones or tear tendons. The old wives tail of animals chewing off their legs well, I doubt it. I believe this old tail evolved from muskrats twisting so much their light bone's broke and thus they twisted the soft tissue until free. In almost 50 years I have never had this happen and the sample size of my catch over those years is huge.

Why am I saying all of this. Well it's to ease hunters that like to hunt with dogs. I cannot guarantee the lack of severe damage to any dog's leg, however I can assure most that if your dog is caught in a leg hold trap or even snare while out hunting. Your dog may be bruised and scared but the damage will be limited. Of the thousands of coyotes I have caught in leg holds I would guess as many as 99% of them could of been released to hunt again. Especially if I use larger jaw traps like a #4 jump.

Now when it comes to 330 conibears, I don't like them, For one as I get older I fear I may make a mistake and have one prematurely close. In fact in my early forties I had one get on my foot when I was checking ditches for holes. I guess the guy before me had the same idea. I could not get the trap off my foot and ankle. I drove to the farm with my left foot hanging out the truck door and had my cousins release it. I had bruises for a week or more. These traps do have a great purpose as they make very humane kills on beavers.

Remember...coyotes don't fly

Larry


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

The 330's is what caused most of the Iowa controversy in the 70's. Seemed there for a while ever ditch or low spot under a fence had a 330 in it fir raccoon, like Larry above I have no use for the 330's above the water line........


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

220 are you coming to Anamosa for Thanksgiving?


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

no Larry, we will be spending the holidays here with our kids and grand-kids...............I think I'm going to actually get in some deer, prairie dog and predator hunting!!!!!!!


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Good for you! I wish you, your family and all others on this site a safe holiday.

Remember,,,coyotes can't fly

Larry


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## 220swift (Mar 2, 2011)

When are you headed west again?


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

I am playing it by ear. Grandson still has some issues and I don't want to get caught 11 hours away.

I am hearing western yotes still should bring $65-85 average with big light bellied heavies over $100. Bobcats are being reported as $150 or more for the light bellied big boys.

But as warm as its been I doubt the yote skins are real good yet. I know cats skins are not! We have had only one killing frost morning the rest have been in the upper 30s to 40s and I hear its the same way in Neb.

Remember...coyotes cant fly

Larry


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