# Getting the distance and accuracy dialed in. Need a little help here!



## Eyemakecalls2 (Apr 13, 2011)

Ok I have been graced with a place to shoot 610, 800 and 900 yard shots. So I have been shooting at the 610 not too bad. I have shot 500 a feww time and usually shot 300 plus. The 800 is tougher but the 900 yard shot is really tough.And quite a bit of deveation. I get 50 inches of fall difference from morning to mid afternoon. 46 to 82 degrees. Do I need a laptop with me to keep dialed in or what am I doing or not doing? I am shooting my .223 it is my most trusted rifle. I reload my own. I have nine inch groups so I'm right at sub MOA but they are up, down, right, left you name it. I could use a little help here. Who's got the suggestion?


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

I wish I could help you out, but I don't shoot at those distances. Are you getting the same pattern, placement or group size on consecutive mornings (when the temp is near the same) and similar group placement,pattern, and sizes in the afternoons. For instance always high in the afternoon and low in the morning. Is the mirage the same ? right or left of center should be wind as long as the bullet starts out straight.


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## rdsi64 (Jun 18, 2011)

The further past the 300 yard line you go, the more the conditions matter. Things like ambiet tempature, station preasure, and above all else, the wind. I wouldn't worry about bringing a laptop. Your most effective tool is a pencil and a notebook of some kind. log every shot you make, the weather condidtions, time of day, dope on the scope. location, altitude mirage. anything and everything you can think of. In the Marine Corps we called our data book. They can be a simple or as detailed as the shooter cares to make it. The Scout snipers even log how often and when they clean their rifle. over time you know exactly what your rifle will do and what conditions it will do it in.


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## rdsi64 (Jun 18, 2011)

I forgot to ask, what load are you shooting that far?


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## showmeyote (Dec 12, 2010)

Yes bullet weight and bullet BC.. Is very important in long range shooting. You need a bullet that has a Very High BC to cut the air and the weight.
If your shooting a AR. Im guessing the higher BC bullets from like Berger and some Sierra probably will not fit in your magazine you might know that already just throwing that out there. The 90 grainers are really long.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

I would imagine the 90gr would have to be a 1-7 twist also. That's a loong bullet, but if berger makes it it will shoot well.


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## showmeyote (Dec 12, 2010)

Yes the twist would need to be either a 1:7 or at least a 1:8.


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## Eyemakecalls2 (Apr 13, 2011)

My twist is 1:8 I shoot Sierra Match king 77 grain .002 thousands of neck pressure, .006 thousands off the land (rifling), 23.5 grain of Relaoder-15 and my bullte tips are meplatted .975 lenght of the bullet. Everything on the internal ballistics are good. My groups say that. It's the externals rise and fall that is the most disruptive. The stuff I'm reading is all about the air densities. I guess writting down my shots is where I need to start.


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## Eyemakecalls2 (Apr 13, 2011)

Oh the Over all lenght (OAL) for magazine sizing is 2.70" that's ten thousands over spec (2.60") for the mag but they fit in with about .002 and the feed fine. I is a lethal load. I just have to get use to the ups and downs of distance shooting and it's flucutations in air density. I think? 
Rising Barometric pressure and beginning low air temp gives it the worst spread. An example would be a cool morning after a rain but another storm is comming that night. The barometer is going up every minute all day long. Because it's clearing up but not for long and so is the temps are going up too. The suns out. But by 3pm the temps are up and the new storm is dropping the barometric pressure. The air is getting thinner and thinner and then thicker and thicker. It's doesn't seem to be about the bullet cutting thru the thick air. It's more about the thicker air hold the bullet up longer in flight. According to Brians program I could be looking at 79" of fall on those kinds of days. We'll see,


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## showmeyote (Dec 12, 2010)

Way to complex for me! I'll stick to the 500 and less...


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## rdsi64 (Jun 18, 2011)

showmeyote said:


> Way to complex for me! I'll stick to the 500 and less...


500 and less woudn't be any fun.


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## showmeyote (Dec 12, 2010)

Lol if I need all that jazz to shoot 800 yards I might just shoot myself!!!


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## Eyemakecalls2 (Apr 13, 2011)

Thanks for the input gents. Lovin it all. Tough is what we are or we'd stay home. Get out there and get it going on. Yep that's us. I used my last day off (back to work tomorrow). I used it at the farm. I shot the 900 like crap but hey... The wind was blowing 1.3 to 3.8 from 4 O'clock ( from over the right shoulder) where I shot from and just the opposite (7 O'clock mixing at the mid of the range) and a little stronger at the target. And it gave me grief for sure. I held 2 moa right and the dominant wind was left. Who knew. The air density gave me at least twenty two inches of different elevation thru-out the day. I did take it back down to the 200 yard mark to re-zero after I had had enough. I took it four click right and up one. Bring it! I love how hard it is. I did think it would be easier. Big mistake. I took great notes and checked the temp and pressures and humidities before every group and that helped reduce the unexpected fluctuation in elevation. I want to say if I can learn this and get good (not great, I'm just not there, at all) I will be stoked. The bullet spin alone at 900 yrd will drift the bullet 4.5 inches to the right. I am way to sick over the few holes in my target so maybe next time. Hey, "showmeyote" I'm with ya. I do have the no-nonsense rifles too. I call em the point and shoots. When it gets boaring around the huntin spots I pull out the (I call it Maggie and that's the only one like it that I have.) .223 and try some distance. This 600 to 900 yard stuff is over the top for sure. I would never try and kill anything past 380-390 yards with it and it would have to be standing still or I'd say nope. Now if it was a .308, .338 ... ok that works.


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## knapper (Feb 5, 2010)

Any thing past 600 is going to be needing to factor in the wind more. This can be done by reading the marige or with flags starting out. The top shooters use range flags at differences and wait for the wind to quite gusting close or down range. I have never quite got the handle on the wind thing yet. Using a larger caliber that shoots good BC bullets would work out better in the wind situation. I have shot at 750 and 970 yards and going from the one to the other was a difference of night and day. Marking your scope and getting set at one distance would help out. When the real long distance shooters shoot they figure in the direction you are shooting and the turning of the earth plus time of flight.


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## Eyemakecalls2 (Apr 13, 2011)

Thankx for the input Knapper. I gotta get some flags. Letting the one direction spot gusting would leave me with only one wind to deal with. Dealing with the two and them going different directions was just wicked. About bigger, um I'd love too. I wish I was shooting at least a 308. I shoot 190's. My rifle cost too much and I'm max'd out weight wise with the 77grainers. Don't have much cash these days so I will get used to shooting the .223 w/ 77 grainer's. I shot the 80's and they just wern't that accurate for me. I even shot the 90's worse. I might try the 80's again but not the 90's. Great input thankx again. Another rifle? I gotta toss that around some more.


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## knapper (Feb 5, 2010)

I tried the 90 s and found them unusable at ant any distance. A 1-8 twist was not doable in the 223. The 80 gr are but you must load too long to fit thin the mag and must be single loaded, no problem at a match but not good for hunting. I am able to load 69 gr Noslor target bullets and use them for rapid fire parts of the matches. If you are looking to use it for hunting gun put on an upper receiver that will shoot some what lighter bullets. I have two ars for this purpose and the match gun stays at home on hunts.


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## rdsi64 (Jun 18, 2011)

knapper said:


> I tried the 90 s and found them unusable at ant any distance. A 1-8 twist was not doable in the 223. The 80 gr are but you must load too long to fit thin the mag and must be single loaded, no problem at a match but not good for hunting. I am able to load 69 gr Noslor target bullets and use them for rapid fire parts of the matches. If you are looking to use it for hunting gun put on an upper receiver that will shoot some what lighter bullets. I have two ars for this purpose and the match gun stays at home on hunts.


With an 1-8 twist barrel the 55 grain tipped tripple shock is a good choice. because of its light weight you can drive it to 3250 FPS in a 20" inch barrel. Since its a lot longer than a lead core 55 grain bullet it will require a faster twist. the Barnes site says 1-9 or faster. It's to bad Barnes bullets cost to much to use for anything other than hunting. A flat shooting bullet with a BC approaching that of 70 grain lead core target bullets is litteraly the best of both worlds.


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## Eyemakecalls2 (Apr 13, 2011)

Right on Knapper. I gave the 90's too many trys. Yep unstable good word for my results also. And the 80's? I think my arm is longer but not by much and neither will fit in the mag. VLD has to stand for something other than very low drag. rdsi64, I really liked the barnes .458 bullets for the socom but I hate the price of them *[Excuse my language.... I have a limited vocabulary]*. I will say I got some of there bullets that I thought they were lead free and they weren't and they did give me store credit. I thought that was a big deal. I shipped them back but it was my mistake. I shot the 70's for a while but just couldn't get a good group (three inches at 200 yards and that was it. I tried everything. The 55's I never looked into. I was trying for a heavy 200 300 yarder for deer. These little brown, stiff-eared, goats on the coast in california. Some have small branches strapped to their heads...horns! That's what the fish and game calls'em horns. Yah seen'um? Sounds like I need to check out the 55's. I do want to say instead of barnes NON LEAD for the 45 long colt, I got Magtech. Like barnes solid copper and they were cheeper by far (Midwayusa.com) 

Magtech Solid Copper Bullets 45 Caliber (451 Diameter) 165 Grain Hollow Point Lead-Free Bag of 100
Product #: 341392
Status: Available

4.33333333333333 stars
$82.99 
For the 45 long colt hand loads. Nasty hollow points too.


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## knapper (Feb 5, 2010)

Hornady has a ballistics calcuator which can be used to figure sight changes from 100 to 1000 yds. and it will give it to you free and with how ever you set it up for distance, including bc and velocity.


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