# Trappers Pay Attention



## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Tonight I received a phone call from one of the National Forest I trap. They asked how I did last season. Of three trappers that trapped the forest of course I did the worst! Yep I got skunked.

But as the conversation continued I started getting pissed. You see other trappers were trapping off walking trails and dogs were being caught. Fortunately they were all foot holds and whomever the trapper was, they were using old weak traps. No harm.

Yes I am not perfect but when I know for a fact that my passion and supplemental income may be effected because of carelessness It pisses me right off.

I spoke via text to the ranch owner I trap about it. Come to find out one of the ranchers that summers his cattle in the forest had found several coyotes in snares. At least 5 were dead but another 4 were alive and it appeared they were awhile. He thought either someone forgot where the snares were or just abandoned them.

What is wrong with the world? Its like the guys who shoot animals for antlers and that's it. These animals give up their lives for our better good. Yet man proves he nothing but a barbarian most of the time.

I am asking all that read this, think twice when you trap. Realize each and every time that wire or steel is set it indeeds cause suffering and even long slow death. Put yourself in the animals position that gets caught.

Maybe I am a little more sensitive then most as I laid for 14.5 hours with a broken hip unable to crawl or move until I was found.

Despite my tragedy I encourage all trappers to respect the animals, and even though they don't have rights, they do feel pain!

Thank you

Larry


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## jimmy shutt (Jun 2, 2013)

you are right Larry it's carless idiots who ruin it for the ones who respect the land and the game. I know for a fact I'll be turning those types in when I see something they are doing, hunters/trappers are loosing because of poaching and lack of ethics in the outdoors.


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

Respectable trappers check their traps and remove them at the end of the season, they also don't set traps and snares where people walk their pets.

Larry, I am not sure where you're going with some of your quotes, I can understand your anger/frustration with the so-called trapper who isn't playing by the rules. 99% of trappers are ethical trappers... The quotes you made sound like they came straight out of the mouth of a anti-trapper! Great ammunition for the anti-trappers. I THINK THIS THREAD SHOULD BE DELETED...

"Yet man proves he's nothing but a barbarian most of the time".

" Realize that each and every time wire or steel is set it indeed causes suffering and even long slow death ".

" And even though they don't have rights, they do feel pain".


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

I respectfully disagree and here is why.

I am being honest and forthright and I don't care about anti-trappers or any "anti" and what they think. It's about time we all stop living in fear from anti's and fight back instead of giving in. I am doing nothing morally wrong period. On average each year I am reminded that for more than 4-5 months, since I was 10,that man is also a predator. Man is no different then yote's, cats, birds of prey fish etc. The only thing that separates us from the four legged, winged or finned beast is man require tools to compete with them. The pain and suffering all predators inflict on their prey is essentially the same. Pain and suffering is like death and it's part of life!

Your correct "99% of trappers are ethical trappers" but how many are moral trappers? While ethics cause them to do what they "ought to do" as required by law, how many operate their traplines regarding what is "moral" correct?


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## catcapper (Feb 11, 2010)

I really don't think the anti's are gonna go national with anything said here on Predatortalk. Our folks here are ethical hunters and trappers.

I've been haul'in timber into the sawmill for the last couple weeks. The new anti's we have up here in this country seem to be a friendly bunch--- their always wave'in and yell'in and honk'in their horns at me when they pass my truck.

Must be the new bumper sticker on the back of the log trailer--- it says--- I HUGGED THEM FIRST.

Don't ever pass up a chance to piss off an anti.lol.

awprint:


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## C2C (Mar 17, 2012)

catcapper said:


> I really don't think the anti's are gonna go national with anything said here on Predatortalk. Our folks here are ethical hunters and trappers.
> 
> I've been haul'in timber into the sawmill for the last couple weeks. The new anti's we have up here in this country seem to be a friendly bunch--- their always wave'in and yell'in and honk'in their horns at me when they pass my truck.
> 
> ...


The same thing was happening on our Alberta trapping forum and the antis "DID ' use postings and such on their fight against us . It caused a big rift in our membership and many left . I too dont like caving in to them and never will , but I believe we must be careful what we say .


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

TheDuckMaster said:


> I respectfully disagree and here is why.
> 
> I am being honest and forthright and I don't care about anti-trappers or any "anti" and what they think. It's about time we all stop living in fear from anti's and fight back instead of giving in. I am doing nothing morally wrong period. On average each year I am reminded that for more than 4-5 months, since I was 10,that man is also a predator. Man is no different then yote's, cats, birds of prey fish etc. The only thing that separates us from the four legged, winged or finned beast is man require tools to compete with them. The pain and suffering all predators inflict on their prey is essentially the same. Pain and suffering is like death and it's part of life!
> 
> Your correct "99% of trappers are ethical trappers" but how many are moral trappers? While ethics cause them to do what they "ought to do" as required by law, how many operate their traplines regarding what is "moral" correct?


 I understand your point Larry, and I don't believe we should live in fear of anti's...I don't. I also don't want to give them anything to use against us.


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

C2C said:


> The same thing was happening on our Alberta trapping forum and the antis "DID ' use postings and such on their fight against us . It caused a big rift in our membership and many left . I too dont like caving in to them and never will , but I believe we must be careful what we say .


 ????...


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

The above responses are even more reason for trappers, hunters and fisherman to unite. We need our own organization like the gun advocates have the NRA.

An organization that has funding to lobby the politicians, expand our laws and rebel against stupid conservation experiments like introducing "canadian grey wolves" into the lower 48 . We are setting in a good place right now as antis are under attack from some of the general public for their illegal and barbarick means of getting their point across. A strong organization could deter their actions even more.

The NRA is not enough to protect our heritage. I am reminded every season that I am part of a heritage that caused our Northern Continent to be explored and populated.

For all the money conservations (hunters, trappers, fisherman) pour into DU, Pheasants forever, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation etc. 1/2 of those funds could go to protecting our heritage as trappers, hunters, and fisherman. While all that money goes to saving the "beast" hardly any funds go to protecting the "conservationist" that monitor and control the populations.

People may not like this I don't care. I prefer to be my own man. I refuse to cower and be careful with what I say due to fear of rebellion. My freedom of speech is limited enough these day. I stand convicted in this as my words speak of the truth of life and all of its goodness and all of its darkness. No different than the bible speaks of such.


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

Some people can't handle the truth... That's part of the problem.

Larry, your right about uniting... We would be much stronger if everyone united, like one National Trappers Association. Individual states could just be chapters of the organization. Do the same with hunting and fishing.

United we stand, divided we fall...

One day I hope.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

No time like the present...!!


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

A recent issue of Sportsmen's Monthly is dedicated to the defense of trapping as a management tool, and common myths surrounding the practice. Easily targeted by animal-rights organizations, who use emotional language to condemn it, trapping faces constant attacks because of ignorance surrounding the facts - and this ignorance doesn't just come from the non-hunting public, it's often embraced by some sportsmen.

I know of no other national organization that does a better job of defending our hunting and trapping rights. If you have yet to become involved and want to do something, these people can help you put action behind your convictions. Don't hesitate to jump in, because they're in it with all of us. They have the clout you seek!

http://www.sportsmensalliance.org/news/why-all-sportsmen-need-to-defend-trapping/


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## C2C (Mar 17, 2012)

------ R----- ,was a trapper here in Alberta or so he says and has been the big push in my province to get trapping and snaring banned . He has been booted out of the Alberta outdoorsman forum many times under lots of different handles as a result of his trolling on there . Hes contacted and written all sorts of articles condemning us and because we stood up against him and geave him enough rope to hang himself , he no longer has much clout left here . The minister of Fish and Wildlife and the department itself has finally quit answereing and returning his calls and told him they dont believe him . All as a result of trappers stepping up and defending our rights . You can find his name if you google it , I dont care to even give him that much credit .


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

All,

I appreciate the insight and the comments. Glen your info is great, however I see the group you mentioned as just another DU, NRA etc. I mean no ill will by that but the group in your link is not at all like like PETA. I am a firm believer you have to fight fire with fire.

AKA: Trappers, hunters, and fisherman require the sam structed group that PETA has. A group that focuses monies on a huge legal team, has monies in its lobbyist pockets in Washington, a group that places ads on TV showing sportsman whats at stake if they dont take action.

I don't want to spend my money on youth programs, shooting classes, or hunter safety courses. Those things cost monies, monies that need focused on lobbyist pushing bills in the legislative and judicial branches of both state and federal levels.

C2C the same programs in the lower 48 apply to you except they would apply to Her majesty's government and provincial laws.

Hunters, fisherman and trappers have done a superior job over the millenniums in protecting birds, beast and fish. But those monies have come at at a cost. While protecting the beast they have forgotten to protect their own interest. While antis provide little to no funds in active conservation support of birds, beats and fish, they do a great job of their perceived methods of protecting them from man himself.

We trappers, hunters and fisherman need to divert funds from conservation as it appears for the most part habitat and species growth is very stable in our modern age. We need to divert 1/2 of these monies and collectively place them them in the same type of program the antis are using against us.

A program of laws and politics.


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## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

Youth hunting, fishing and trapping programs are one of the best ways to keep our heritage alive... Money well spent.
If we don't teach the kids about hunting, fishing and trapping, we are fighting a losing battle.

Larry, " It's only money, pigs won't eat it and you can't take it with you"...


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Habitat, or lack thereof, means everything to wildlife. We don't have pheasants anymore in Michigan, because we don't have habitat anymore. Same for deer in the U.P. and northern L.P.

The U.S. Sportsmen's Association is also a stalwart in legal battles with the antis, where much of our troubles begin. Example: The Midwest wolf being put on the Endangered Species List. Guess who's fighting this? Others include bear hunting/trapping victories in Maine. Already a done deal.

To gain that much strength to fight the anits requires a broad base of support for a broad base of cash. That's pretty much what it boils down to. Money. Any group, including those that may be more narrowly focused - needs big dough.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Glen I am a right brained thinker. I see whats not working and therefore I feel things needs changed to make it work.

Every military general and strategist knows the best way to win any war is study the enemy and adapt. Build on whats worked for them, per say. Our enemy the antis have a broad legal team and they don't waste money on habitat or youth education. They don't waste money on drills for food plots. They don't build shallow water dams for waterfowl. The don't support youth 4H shooting programs.

In fact I have yet to see any programs from the anti's that do anything for the wildlife they claim get injustice for. They have no youth programs to educate the youth about their cause. What they do is use their funds exclusively for disruption of the law.

My right brain thinking tells me we need to take a break from conservation and youth education and start worrying more about ethics. That is we need to start with the law makers and do whatever we can to protect our heritage of hunting, trapping and fishing. For if we don't the habitat we have created and the the youth programs we have invested in will "NOT" be forgone conclusion of intent.


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

So, what is the name of your new organization?


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

PETS....People for the Ethical Treatment of Sportsman :hunter4:


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## C2C (Mar 17, 2012)

TheDuckMaster said:


> PETS....People for the Ethical Treatment of Sportsman :hunter4:


LOL .. Is that anything like PETA ?

People Eating Tasty Animals ?? :glutton:


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Seriously a the name I have thought about for more than a decade would be

HCA...Heritage Conservationist of the America's

America's meaning South America. USA and Canada.

"A group standing strong to protect and preserve all outdoor activities that have populated our nations"


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

I'm wondering how your group's efforts would be different than the other trapping organizations already in existence, such as the National Trapping Association, Fur Takers of America and myriad state organizations.

Compelling people to donate to another group with no track record of legal successes seems monumental in light of 2 facts:

1) Other groups already have legal teams and have had success, and

2) There's only so much money to go around and every group fights for the same dollars

You would be faced with the present-declining participation of hunters and trappers. The unintended consequences could be that more splintering of purpose would have the effect of weakening the effort in one already stretched thin.

You'll also need strong allies, because you cannot do it alone. How would you actually build such a coalition? Who are the players on your team that believe in your cause enough to fund it?

Larry, I'm only playing devil's advocate, because if I don't, someone else will throw cold water on your fire. Guaranteed.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Gken,

Think about your post and that right there is the issue. Trappers have two groups NTA, FTA. Right there the monies are dived and are not use in a collective manner. As you said "2) There's only so much money to go around and every group fights for the same dollars"

The NRA is powerful because it has funds. Its very much a stand alone group. I want the same a stand alone group for protecting our outdoor heritages. A group with enough funding it can lobby both sides of the isle without fear of losing.

If we do not do something such as I suggested and continue to poor monies into wetlands, animal studies etc. We wont have to worry about a decline in participation of hunters and trappers as we will be no more. Then tell me then who will be the stewards of the outdoor environment? .

I say all of this as I am dismayed where I hear individual programs like the Grouse folks fighting Trappers because hunting dogs happened to get into a trap/snare. The Grouse Folks and Trappers spend their funds to go after one another when the funds could be spent to protect both heritages. But as you said so many groups and now they are fighting each other. Fighting why? That's simple in my view, to maintain volunteer memberships so a few at the top can draw in huge annual salaries. IE: Dale Hill President of DU...$351,859.00 as reported in Forbes Magazine 200 largest charities

Your right Glen in this narcissistic world we live in my dream would never work. Mostly because the narcissist who make up a large share of these groups. You know the ones, they are in it for a 170 inch rack, 50lb king salmon, daily limits of fowl. These types will never succumb to such a lame idea as protecting the rights they use to self heal their egos.

Thus true outdoorsman is becoming extinct long before his prey.


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Lobbying both side of the isle? The left gets its support from HSUS, and all the other whacko groups and has a budget of some $100,000,000.

Now really. Who do you think the likes of the current libs will support? Coyotes may not be able to fly and libs will never change their stripes. But, I'm sure they'd take your money.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

They are all happy to take our money Glenn, Look at the senators right now that run for President. Does either side the right or left ever pay back their $174,000 salary that they keep while they are on the campaign trail? I figure Rubio, Cruz and Sanders owe us all more than 1/2 million.

Many times in this nation the left and rights have been swayed into a forgone amicable conclusion. You can't get blood out of a turnip, but you sure as hell can sway politicians with greenbacks or similar compensation. Particularly the ones with law degrees.


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## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Glen thanks for the great discussion. Keeps a mans mind young.

Larry


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

I look at it like this: Just like there is no politician that can be just what we want - and, we're perfectly able to find fault in any of them - we still vote for the person that most represents our perspective; it only makes sense.

Same with the big groups. However, even with their "faults", groups like Sportsmen's Alliance have played a vital role in the defeat of our common enemy, HSUS in trapping lawsuits across the nation. And, HSUS is the power behind the antis. PETA is the JV. Plus, Sportsmen's Alliance is taking the crazy notion, brought on and won by HSUS, to the appeals court in an attempt to overturn the listing of gray wolves on the Endangered Species List. Science tells us they're all wrong, but we must fight some more in the courts.

Quite the resume! Bottom line: Wherever the antis fight trapping, the Sportsmen's Alliance fights back.


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