# This is how we lose our rights... pay attention



## El Gato Loco

So I will go into great detail on this in the coming days, but I wanted to start out short and sweet.

Got an email today -- forwarded to me thru the fire department. It was a note from the local vet who's husband took their dogs out for a walk out here in Pike National Forest like they do regularly. This time though, one of their dogs, a malamute / husky mix was shot in the chest by a couple of predator hunters who were in the forest, running an electronic call for coyotes.

Two men, one from Castle Rock, and one from Colorado Springs (either of you guys out here?!?!) shot this dog without even identifying their target, and apparently while the dog was just FEET from her husband who was wearing a red coat.

As it turns out.... her husband is a local doctor, and was hiking with the MAYOR of the City. Now she's pledging to do all she can to change the laws and see to it that this never happens again.

So let's recap... a couple of idiots, go out calling for coyotes. Don't know what a coyote even looks like, and shoot the first thing they see. Sound intelligent to you all? You think there is a high likelihood that these two clowns will be responsible for all of us losing some of our rights out here?

The whole email from her is below. Let me know what you think.

Oh... does this look like a coyote to any of you?

I should know who these two guys are by tomorrow. I sure hope it's not anyone out here. I am really disappointed and pissed off tonight. This is a slap in the face to all of us who consider ourselves to be sportsmen and also a perfect example of how a couple of idiots can screw up things for everyone.









Story:



> _To all our friends and pet lovers:_
> 
> _Our beautiful malamute/husky dog, Reka, was shot yesterday while hiking with Jeff on a high use trail in Pike National Forest, across the street from the road we live on._
> 
> _At 2 pm, on this gorgeous sunny Saturday, Jeff went for his customary hike with our dogs. We hike and/or ride our horses with our dogs 4-5 times per week on the trails near our house. He parked at his usual place at the trailhead on Cedar Mountain Road, and was hiking down a marked foot trail that leads to the 717 system. Two men, one from Castle Rock, and one from Colorado Springs, were out shooting coyotes for fun. They were utilizing some type of "coyote calling" device to attract coyotes, and this got Reka's attention and she went towards the noise. She was shot in the chest. *She is a tall 75 lb malamute/husky, wearing a bright orange reflective collar with tags.*_
> 
> _Jeff wrapped Reka in his sweatshirt to stem the bleeding, and immediately called me. Fortunately I was at home, and within minutes I was there and I was able to get Reka over to Teller Park Vet and into surgery. With the assistance of Dr. Lemons, we spent two hours working on her, and despite a horrific wound and extensive blood loss, I believe she will survive, although it remains to be seen if she will be able to return to her previous level of fitness and continue to climb 14er's with Jeff._
> 
> _Jeff called the Teller County Sheriff's department and the Division of Wildlife. Apparently, as long as the hunters "believed" that they were shooting a coyote, they are within their rights to shoot and/or kill dogs, hiking alongside their owners, with *absolute impunity*. _
> 
> _This is OUTRAGEOUS. I am incensed and livid that in a relatively densely populated area like Divide, on a marked trail, adjacent to Teller County's largest subdivision of Indian Creek Estates, recreational shooters can shoot and kill your dog while you are hiking with it. They did not shoot her because she was unattended, at large, or chasing wildlife or livestock, or threatening anyone - in fact, she is quite shy and would never approach a stranger. They shot her because they were trigger-happy and did not have a clear enough view to distinguish a 75 lb collared malamute mix, hiking with a man and 3 other dogs, from a *coyote*._
> 
> _On the USDA Forest Service's own website, Pike National Forest is described as "... a *busy urban* national forest noted for the majority of fourteen thousand foot peaks in Colorado ..." We do not live in an area where you would not expect to see other hikers, horseriders and ATV'ers and dog walkers!_
> 
> _Where is the justice? We live here because we love nature and the outdoors. We have every right to hike with our dogs in the national forest off leash, as long as we can recall them with voice commands. I know that so many of you, like me, spend hours of your free time out in the national forest with your dogs, horses and children. Jeff and I, along with many of our friends, family, and children, have hiked this trail HUNDREDS of times in the last 4 years. I do not think it is unreasonable to expect to be able to hike with your dogs, off leash but within recall range, without fear of being shot and killed. Shouldn't a person wielding a deadly weapon have to have a clear view of what he is shooting?_
> 
> _I think it is time to make hunters and recreational shooters RESPONSIBLE for knowing what they are shooting. Hunters do not get a bad reputation for killing/consuming game, or defending their property or livestock. They have this reputation because of incidents like this, when dogs, cattle, or horses are mistakenly shot due to the hunter not having a clear view of what he is shooting._
> 
> _I am going to try to find a way to put on the books, somewhere, that if you can't clearly see what you are shooting, then YOU SHOULDN'T SHOOT IT, and you will be responsible financially, via heavy fines, if you do so. Shooters should have to take responsibility for shooting and or killing our pets!!!!!! I also believe that if they want to shoot wildlife, they need to GET OFF the marked trails, where people, horses, and ATVers can be expected to be. Yes, it may take more effort for them to "bushwack" to get off the trails - too bad! In heavily wooded areas like Pike National Forest, it is often impossible to see that the dog coming around the corner of the trail towards you is 15 feet from its owner!!!!_
> 
> _Since they clearly could not see that Reka was hiking with a tall man in a bright red Parka, and 3 other dogs, including Sprighty, it is entirely possible that the bullet that blew open Reka's chest could have also hit Jeff! And yes, Sprighty, the Mayor of Divide, was also with Jeff when Reka was shot! This may have to be her final act as Mayor of Divide - to make people handling deadly weapons *be responsible*for what they shoot!_
> 
> _If you agree that there should be some type of fine or punishment for shooting a pet while hiking with its owner, I could use some help I would like to contact the D.O.W., National Forest Service, Teller County Sherriff, newspapers, t.v. stations, etc., to let them know what happened to my dog and that I think there needs to be something done about the impunity that shooters enjoy! I am exhausted this morning, and have a horrible headache and heartache after spending the night laying on the floor next to Reka while she panted, wimpered and fussed all night trying to find a comfortable way to stand and sleep._
> 
> _By the way, the two shooters *kindly* offered, in the face of my hysterical screaming, cursing and sobbing, to pay for HALF of the vet bill... that only infuriates me *more* as it implies that there is some kind of "shared" blame for them shooting my dog!!!!!_
> 
> _Lisa G. S. Berg, DVM_
> _*The Mobile Pet Vet*_
> _[email protected]_
> _Divide, CO_


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## ebbs

I'm sick to my stomach infuriated dude. How much you wanna bet they knew it was a dog and still pulled the trigger anyway.


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## youngdon

I'm with you ebbs...I don't know how they could have not known it was a domestic dog. I would like to believe that they will be priosecuted and held completely responsible for their actions. It makes me sick to think that i could be out hiking with my dogs and have something similar happen. God help me because I'd shoot back.


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## El Gato Loco

I've invited Lisa out here to view this thread. Hopefully she will see that guys like these two are the exception and NOT the rule. I can't help but to agree with her.... these two guys should have to pay for their actions.

Don -- I too would have been shooting back.


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## youngdon

I'd like to think that I'd have the presence of mind to do what her husband Jeff did, get my dog emergency medical treatment first.


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## ebbs

Chris Miller said:


> I've invited Lisa out here to view this thread. Hopefully she will see that guys like these two are the exception and NOT the rule. I can't help but to agree with her.... these two guys should have to pay for their actions.
> 
> Don -- I too would have been shooting back.


Chris, do you know Lisa? I know all this happened in your back yard and with the FD your world over there is shrinking fast. I'm still fuming over this. We're supposed to be helping people PROTECT their pets from predators.


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## El Gato Loco

ebbs said:


> Chris, do you know Lisa? I know all this happened in your back yard and with the FD your world over there is shrinking fast. I'm still fuming over this. We're supposed to be helping people PROTECT their pets from predators.


Don't know her personally, but know of her. We take our dogs to the same vet where she took Reka after this happened.

You're right though.... I get after these predators because of the harm they do to our pets, our livestock and even us and our children when given the chance.

There is NO excuse for even pointing a gun towards something you have not positively identified (and plan to shoot), LET ALONE actually pulling the trigger. As someone who spends a LOT of time out in the woods, I would rather guys like this be locked up so that we can all feel a little safer when out there.

Fuming too man....


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## Mattuk

Dear me that is sickening isn't it, I do hope its not someone on here.


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## hassell

Like said above those two guys have just tangled with the wrong woman, OH they will get hit in the pocket book for sure. The sad thing about this whole incident and other's that happen elsewhere is that for every 10 steps ahead that we accomplish in our hunting fraternity and proving to everyone of how we are stewards of the land and wildlife caregivers; incidents like this I'm sure just knocked us back 30 or more steps and it will take years to start gaining trust amongst the non- hunters.


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## bones44

I am sickened by this story. I'm with you guys on how could anyone not recognize a domestic dog no matter the situation? One word slobs ! I feel so bad for the family who's dog was shot. Hopefully she pulls through. I would love to see these guys prosecuted and hung out to dry. Like Rick said 30 steps backward. Disgusting is a nice way of putting it. I just had to put my lab to sleep and am devastated so I know EXACTLY how this woman feels. Prayers go out to the family.


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## Mattuk

Sorry to hear that Tom. I know that feeling of losing a best friend.


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## bones44

Thank you. Didn't mean to stray but I know how it feels. Poor lady and her family have to be pretty stressed to say the least right now. Thankfully she's a vet.


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## Mattuk

Not at all Tom. To me they are like a best friend that can never be replaced.


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## Helmet_S

Guys this is the kind of stuff that we as hunters, shooters, good stewards of the woods, etc. need to make sure doesn't happen. I myself take pride in making sure that I know what I am shooting at and placing the best shot possible on the animal for a humane dispatch. The fact that they didn't identify their target, didn't identify the targets surroundings, and didn't place a quality shot all reflect upon the nature of these two shooters (since they don't display many qualities of what I call a hunter).

I wish I could give them the benefit of doubt as we all know how excitement and such can add to mistakes, but they just made to many mistakes or bad choices in this article for me to do that. I would however love to hear their side of the story also. Maybe if they were to give their honest side to the story we could better know what exactly they were thinking and could address this with other hunters to ensure that this situation doesn't happen again.


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## Ruger

Definitely a slap in the face for responsible hunters! All of us know the great responsibility we take on when we put a firearm in our hands. One stroke of the trigger and something can die, you can't call the shot back. Make sure ya know what you are shooting at. If somebody called in my dog and shot it I would be furious. I hunt an area where we are supposed to shoot feral dogs. I don't because I can't be absolutely positive that those dogs are not some child's pet. I hope that we spread the message that this type of action should not be tolerated and the we are a responsible group.


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## saskredneck

I think it would be interesting to hear the other side of the story. Not sure what was going through their heads.


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## youngdon

Obviously, the sun was not shining where their heads were.


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## 220swift

Years of hard work keeping our way of life as outdoors sportsmen and sportswomen in a positive light have just been set back to a point as of yet not know. This action by these two people (they sure as hell are not sportsmen) is unthinkable. Clearly identifing your target is at the top of Hunter Saftey Education teachings. I'm beyond infuriated and can not even imagine these two not stepping up and accepting full responcibility.


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## 220swift

it's actions like this that cost us in Colorado our traditional trapping methods.

*[Excuse my language.... I have a limited vocabulary]* THESE GUYS!!!!!!!!


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## McYoteHunter

I cant believe this. Its so amazing the stupidity of people these days. I dont understand why they were hunting so close to a trail in the first place. Lazy? Doesnt make sense. My sympathy goes to the family and I hope those guys pay big time.

While I could careless for their side of the story, Im curious to know why they only offered to pay HALF the bill. WTF?

IDENTIFY! IDENTIFY! IDENTIFY!

Can it be any simpler?


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## Mitch_RAGE

I might be a rookie to the site but not to hunting. I just dont understand 1st why someone would setup close to a walking trail. I have many trails around me that i take my kids and my dog out on, and you know how kids are. full of energy. What if instead of a grown man it was a child out there on a walking trail with that dog. This sickens me to know end. I cand say these 2 jokers did anything technically against the law, but what they did was totally wrong. If nothing else maybe this story will, help to reemphasise the important of safety in the field.


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## youngdon

i don't know the game laws in CO but honestly, I've always thought moronic behavior *should* be against the law...


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## El Gato Loco

220swift said:


> Clearly identifing your target is at the top of Hunter Saftey Education teachings.


Most of the irresponsible hunters i've met out in the field have been older guys who were "grandfathered" in before hunters ed became a law. The scariest type of person to hunt with is one who doesn't understand the basic rules of gun handling and hunting. I've hunted with old timers who don't hesitate to rack a round while the gun is pointed right at you.... or who think it's ok for their finger to be inside the trigger guard before they are even ready to shoot.

We need to reevaluate our hunting laws, and driving laws too. Just because you're old and incompetent doesn't mean you deserve a free pass. Quite the opposite actually.

By the way...the shooter was a retired Colorado cop.


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## bones44

That is scary. I just cannot wrap my head around this whole situation. I'm with you Chris about some of the older guys doing those things. My neighbor did the same *[Excuse my language.... I have a limited vocabulary]* thing with a muzzle pointed at my nephew. I about flipped my lid but didn't out of respect for the man. I calmly reminded him about it and he didn't even realize what he was doing. I hope the dog is OK and keep us updated.


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## hassell

WELL being one of the older guys I can see your point BUT I was also an instructor and examiner for our Provincial Hunters ed. program. I can tell you a few good stories about careless people and firearms, actually one involved an ex-army turned policeman seeing as you mentioned police. These involved people of various ages.

Bottom Line-- Harsher penalties for those involved in firearm, wildlife infractions -- Not just a slap on the wrist!!!!!!!!


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## 220swift

Chris Miller said:


> Most of the irresponsible hunters i've met out in the field have been older guys who were "grandfathered" in before hunters ed became a law. The scariest type of person to hunt with is one who doesn't understand the basic rules of gun handling and hunting. I've hunted with old timers who don't hesitate to rack a round while the gun is pointed right at you.... or who think it's ok for their finger to be inside the trigger guard before they are even ready to shoot.
> 
> We need to reevaluate our hunting laws, and driving laws too. Just because you're old and incompetent doesn't mean you deserve a free pass. Quite the opposite actually.
> 
> By the way...the shooter was a retired Colorado cop.


You're right Chris, maybe it is time to re-evaluate the current laws and make Hunter Ed and/or a firearms class mantatory for all who are going to hunt or to do any type of shooting. This is more than a hunting incident, this is a lack of gun handling skills and a complete lack of respect for everyone but themselves.

Back rounds checks for purchasing a firearm are worthless when the buyer still has improper gun handling knowledge.

Retired cop, BULL*&%@. Just because you drive a car doesn't make you a mechanic!


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## 220swift

hassell said:


> .
> 
> Bottom Line-- Harsher penalties for those involved in firearm, wildlife infractions -- Not just a slap on the wrist!!!!!!!!


Unfortunetly, the harsher penalties will be enforced on all of us. Our general population has the liberal court system behind them.


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## youngdon

Chris Miller said:


> Most of the irresponsible hunters i've met out in the field have been older guys who were "grandfathered" in before hunters ed became a law. The scariest type of person to hunt with is one who doesn't understand the basic rules of gun handling and hunting. I've hunted with old timers who don't hesitate to rack a round while the gun is pointed right at you.... or who think it's ok for their finger to be inside the trigger guard before they are even ready to shoot.
> 
> We need to reevaluate our hunting laws, and driving laws too. Just because you're old and incompetent doesn't mean you deserve a free pass. Quite the opposite actually.
> 
> By the way...the shooter was a retired Colorado cop.


Does not surprise me one bit that he was a police officer. I know quite a few and have all my life, MOST of them feel as though the law does not apply to them in the same manner as it does to the rest of us. I cannot, and will not believe he thought for a minute that it was a coyote. I'd lay money on it that he thought it was a wolf and he was gonna take it out


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## youngdon

.... wearing a collar and followed closely by a goobermint researcher.


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## HowlinRed

This is bad news indeed. Truth be told, he knew what he was doing. You can't assume anything when getting ready to pull the trigger. You MUST KNOW!!


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## Mitch_RAGE

By the way...the shooter was a retired Colorado cop.

HMMMMMMM! this is typical. we have an area near me that is used by our local PD to shoot quackers. In an are that is designated no firearms shooting in city Limits. except they can do as they please. I would assume that as a retired cop. he would have had lots of range time and been versed in situational awareness. But I guess that all goes out the window when you are hunting right on a nature walk trail. Chris if you do talk to the lady wish her gods speed and a full recovery for her beloved pet.


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## Antlerz22

Retire the cops hunting privileges permanently. He has shown the propensity to make stupid assumptions, and probably because of the --Im a cop mentality that "means" I know it all and am infallible. He is supposed to be a professional in all aspects of gun handling. Including the identification of targets whether human OR animal. Shoot a police dog by accident and see what happens to you--maybe that brings gravity to the responsibility of shooting ANYthing that could be confused with another non target species. Lisa if you're reading this thread, please dont assume all hunters are this STUPID. We're not, but inadvertently there are those few who slip through the cracks. Fix the crack (make the bozo pay dearly) as an example to others like them --but dont replace the floor in doing so-- Whats in place works--just as there are car accidents with those who have passed a driving test as well as a written--new restraints do nothing but pacify a need for fixing something that isnt broke. What needs to be broke is his bank account--after all, money hits home and publicizing the amount is more of a deterrent to inerrant hunters than you can imagine. We all here at PT hope your dog pulls through and retains enough of how he was and to be without too many complications.


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## Ruger

Very well said Antler22. We are not all that stupid. Those that are responsible and careful will be the ones that pay the price if the individuals are not held accountable for their actions.


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## 220swift

Antlerz22 said:


> Retire the cops hunting privileges permanently. He has shown the propensity to make stupid assumptions, and probably because of the --Im a cop mentality that "means" I know it all and am infallible. He is supposed to be a professional in all aspects of gun handling. Including the identification of targets whether human OR animal. Shoot a police dog by accident and see what happens to you--maybe that brings gravity to the responsibility of shooting ANYthing that could be confused with another non target species. Lisa if you're reading this thread, please dont assume all hunters are this STUPID. We're not, but inadvertently there are those few who slip through the cracks. Fix the crack (make the bozo pay dearly) as an example to others like them --but dont replace the floor in doing so-- Whats in place works--just as there are car accidents with those who have passed a driving test as well as a written--new restraints do nothing but pacify a need for fixing something that isnt broke. What needs to be broke is his bank account--after all, money hits home and publicizing the amount is more of a deterrent to inerrant hunters than you can imagine. We all here at PT hope your dog pulls through and retains enough of how he was and to be without too many complications.


HERE, HERE !!!!!!
A very good sumation!


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## frozenbutt

Chris Miller said:


> By the way...the shooter was a retired Colorado cop.


I'm suprised he could hit what he was aiming at then.


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## frozenbutt

This is one reason I don't go pheasant hunting during deer season. Some of the deer hunters think any dog seen is chasing deer and shoot them. Even though it is illegal in Mn to do so, they still think that is what need to be done. So I don't buy that he thought it was a coyote for one minute. If someone killed my dog while out pheasant hunting I would probally be going to prision.


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## McYoteHunter

I too thought about the fact he thought a HUSKIE was a coyote. I bet he thought it was a Wolf and wanted it. Add poaching on top of the stupidity and you got someone who should be fined, Jailed, and all hunting/firearm privileges removed.

I bet he is getting the "brotherhood" treatment....


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## McYoteHunter

Also, is there anyway us at PT can help the family? Donations etc?


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## ReidRH

The First Rule My DAD Taught me when I started Hunting Was to "KNOW WHAT YOUR TARGET IS" Identify your target!

Never Shoot Near ANYONE or ANY DOMESTIC ANIMAL!!! This is a Very Sad Situation!!!


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