# Most of us have seen a carcass hanging on a fence.



## Centex

I assume that it is done to discourage other coyotes from entering, but am curious about whether a coyote will scavange a dead coyote. I have heard that turkey vultures will not scavange a dead vulture. Is the same true for coyotes? 
Centex


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## Bigdrowdy1

I have seen many hung on fences that nothing touched. I think it is more to let the farmers and ranchers and other hunters see the catch. Though cant remember ever seeing yotes around the carcasses either.


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## GritGuy

I've put out dog carcass for years and never seen another coyote bother it's own, but I don't believe they won't either. Seen them go right over and take off with fox and beaver, skunks and others but just leave the coyote there, still believe they work them over when it gets rough.

That hanging on the fence deal to scare them away is a myth, don't work and it's just bad thing to see for those who don't hunt, gives us all a bad name who enjoy harvesting fur.


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## ReidRH

I agree with ya Grit carcass on a fence is not something I Like to see and I have hunted all my Life. Just think what a non hunter thinks when they see such as this. The same goes for deer hides and guts on Public Roads It has caused real problems in our Area. Hey take some Pics and Show just a Little Respect to the animal we all love to hunt, and a little respect for other folks can't hurt either.

I have Never heard of a coyote Scavenging a coyote Carcas Centex.


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## El Gato Loco

Not a fan of hanging them on the fences, but I have been on ranches where the ranchers request that when they are paying for ADC work. I'm talking about inside fences obviously... nothing road facing. They just want to see the body count.

I have zero experience on the subject though, and cannot speak as to whether a coyote will eat a coyote but I have spoke with guys that say "absolutely not", and others that say "all the time". I have yet to see any video to support the latter though.


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## ebbs

Centex said:


> I assume that it is done to discourage other coyotes from entering, but am curious about whether a coyote will scavange a dead coyote. I have heard that turkey vultures will not scavange a dead vulture. Is the same true for coyotes?
> Centex


Doesn't seem as though it does much to promote what we do if it's within plain sight of the general public. Reminds me of the story of William Wallace in Braveheart when his body parts were placed on a stake outside the townships in Scotland to serve as a warning to other rebels. Doubt it works as a warning to coyotes and I doubt it looks good to the anti's. Makes us look like cruel torturers. Thoughts?


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## bar-d

Fully agree with all. I have never hung up a coyote carcass, even on my own fences. It does nothing to drive out other coyotes. I have seen them hung on fences around here and they hang there until they mummify and finally fall apart and drop to the ground. Like ebbs and others said, we don't need that kind of publicity. I believe coyotes will scavange other coyotes but only when there is little else to eat. Now, if a hog comes up on a coyote carcass, they will readily feed on it.


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## youngdon

Well said by all here, never have never will. However I would hang the carcass of a child molester on a fence for all to see especially those who may be inclined to do the same. Sorry I just read a news report on yet another scum bag piece of crap hurting a child. Lead deficiency, I think they would be cured if we upped the lead level in their bodies, slowly.


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## ebbs

hassell said:


> Youngdon- maybe we could get bearmanric to make some calls for the above mentioned predators and we can add them to our list of things to hunt?


Interesting thoughts, fellas. For the past 7 weeks law enforcement around Northern Colorado here have been on the lookout for a twelve year old girl that was abducted the end of March. Vanished without a trace. Posse's on horses riding the land, people with rakes searching ditches, dive teams in ponds, you name it. Anyway, yesterday morning a ditch rider (for the irrigation ditch company) was out and came across a decomposed body in their ditch a stones throw from our house. It shut down the road, the FBI came back up, helicopters circling overhead and the search parties came back looking for any trace of what happened. Later yesterday afternoon the body was identified as an adolescent girl about the same age as the missing girl. It still hasn't been identified as her just yet, but most feel it's just a matter of time.

I can't imagine the anguish of the family and pray that God gives this guy/girl/gang what's coming to him if we don't get our hands on him first. It's a horrific thing. Every time I hear about something like this especially in my back yard I get a little bit antsier to get a call from the Sheriff's dept letting me know they're ready to take my picture for my CCW permit. Too bad coyotes don't get the message like people do.

It all reminds me of the scene towards the end of the movie, "Tombstone" when Kurt Russell is yelling at the Cowboy gang members, "You tell 'em if I see a red sash I'm killing the man wearing it. You tell them I'm comin' and hell's comin' with me!" Don't know if that's really what the West was like back then, but sometimes I wish the good guys had the power of fear on their side a bit more. Sorry for the rant, it's been a long couple days.


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## bar-d

Amen, ebbs. Anyone who is capable of doing that to anyone, let alone a child should be stood up against a wall. The parents should have first choice of plugging the low life dog. If they declined, I am sure there are others who would be willing to fill in for them. I worried constantly when my daughter was attending Texas Tech. I was 2 1/2 hours away. Thank goodness she never had any threats. Now, I worry about my two granddaughters. If something were to ever happen to any of the three, I am sure I would be in prison because I would do my best to introduce the culprit to my Smith & Wesson M&P .40, up close and personal. 
Prayers for the family of that little girl.


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## bar-d

Another indicator of the decline of civilization and humanity.


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## yotecatslayer34

*Id rather harvest the fur myself but I know numerous people that hang'em on fences. To each their own.*


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## RoughNeck

bar-d said:


> Amen, ebbs. Anyone who is capable of doing that to anyone, let alone a child should be stood up against a wall. The parents should have first choice of plugging the low life dog. If they declined, I am sure there are others who would be willing to fill in for them. I worried constantly when my daughter was attending Texas Tech. I was 2 1/2 hours away. Thank goodness she never had any threats. Now, I worry about my two granddaughters. If something were to ever happen to any of the three, I am sure I would be in prison because I would do my best to introduce the culprit to my Smith & Wesson M&P .40, up close and personal.
> Prayers for the family of that little girl.


 I agree with all that is said about the predators of children, and bar-d I was at Texas Tech myself nice school.


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## bar-d

I think I should own stock in T.T.


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## coyotekidd

My buddy the rancher hangs the 'yotes on the fence to keep the cattle from going thru the area


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## coyotekidd

Tries to keep cattle on one side and antelope on the other. Antelope graze on the cattles fields competing for food. Many ranchers have harsh feelings toward Antelope down here. Should they be considered a varmint?


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## ebbs

Probably more pest than varmint. Whitetail are the same way in the midwest, though they're not near as plentiful as your antelope herds, AND they have timber to forage in as well.


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## hassell

Thats a new one on me! I know lots of ranchers that raise cattle, they have wildlife all around their land and have never heard of anyone putting dead yotes on a fence, makes no sense to me, the coyote isn't going to stop the cattle from going through, thats what the fence is for, as for antelope problems, they were in the area way before cattle came along, thats just part of ranching, guys around here if they have valuable hay fields put up elk fence, though an 8 ft. fence doesn't keep all out, some will jump it. If its a big problem maybe he should approach the state game department, they may extend a hunting season in the area for local herds, they do that in area's here and in some states.


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## wilded

It was developed as a way for ADC and government trappers to prove to the landowners what they were paying for.


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## hassell

wilded said:


> It was developed as a way for ADC and government trappers to prove to the landowners what they were paying for.


So its a traditional thing or is it a rule that had to be followed? How long ago was this practice started?


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## wilded

Here in Texas many of the ADC trappers were sent a check at the end of the month for the number of coyotes hanging on the entrance fence of the ranch. There are no rules it is just a way to show you actually killed the number of coyotes you said you did. I know others that had to turn in scalps or tails. Just depends of the deal you made and how the landowner wanted to verify the numbers. Lots of other people just started copying the pros and hung them up to display that they had killed them. Hanging them on the fence will not keep other coyotes out of a place, that's an old wives tail.


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## hassell

wilded said:


> Here in Texas many of the ADC trappers were sent a check at the end of the month for the number of coyotes hanging on the entrance fence of the ranch. There are no rules it is just a way to show you actually killed the number of coyotes you said you did. I know others that had to turn in scalps or tails. Just depends of the deal you made and how the landowner wanted to verify the numbers. Lots of other people just started copying the pros and hung them up to display that they had killed them. Hanging them on the fence will not keep other coyotes out of a place, that's an old wives tail.


 Bounties that were paid out to control problem animals has used the collecting of tails as the easiest way of keeping track. That goes back, way before I was around. Hanging any animals on fences within public view is and should be frowned upon, it just gives the bleeding hearts more ammunition to shut down ares for us to hunt or even worse!


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## wilded

I'm not saying right or wrong. Just telling you how it came about here and why it is done. If you work for one of the big ranches I would guess you do what they want you to do or they will hire someone else. Lots of ranchers really do not care what someone else thinks of the way they do things. They just want to stop the coyotes from killing livestock and want to see proof of what they are spending money on. JMHO


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## ebbs

Thanks for the info Ed. Definitely sheds new light on the earlier discussion. I suppose the ethical side of it comes down to whether or not you're doing your job, or just trying to show off?


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## hassell

wilded said:


> I'm not saying right or wrong. Just telling you how it came about here and why it is done. If you work for one of the big ranches I would guess you do what they want you to do or they will hire someone else. Lots of ranchers really do not care what someone else thinks of the way they do things. They just want to stop the coyotes from killing livestock and want to see proof of what they are spending money on. JMHO


 So its an ongoing practice in some places? When ranchers hire ADC Trappers are they regulated by the state game departments or can they just hire anyone, here if you use a trapper he or she must hold a valid trappers lic. and if they work anyplace other than their trap line they must get a permit through the game dept.


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## wilded

It is only regulated if the trapper is a government trapper as far as I am aware. A trappers license is only needed to trap and sell furbearers. A trapper working as a agent for the owner to control livestock predators does not need any authority but the landowners. You must remember these are not public grazing leases in Texas, but private ranches.


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## hassell

Thanks for the clarification! I have a few beaver problems here, inorder for me to trap them I have to involve the game dept. and we all know what happens when the Gov. is involved! Once they are, they can come onto your property anytime! Or take care of the problem yourself!


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## wilded

In Texas the old timers have a saying. SSS (Shoot, Shovel, Shutup) I am not sure what it means.


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## Bigdrowdy1

As a kid growing up in the 60's this was a common site in Okla. bobcats as well as yotes were hung on the entrance to some of the larger ranches. I agree with all the issues of today it is not a good practice. I still see it in the back country when I am there. This maybe something done just because that was acepptable years ago. Ranchers use to pay $5.00 for a set of coyote ears to us. Thanks Wilded for for insight on this. This would make sense to me now.


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## hassell

Bigdrowdy1 said:


> As a kid growing up in the 60's this was a common site in Okla. bobcats as well as yotes were hung on the entrance to some of the larger ranches. I agree with all the issues of today it is not a good practice. I still see it in the back country when I am there. This maybe something done just because that was acepptable years ago. Ranchers use to pay $5.00 for a set of coyote ears to us. Thanks Wilded for for insight on this. This would make sense to me now.


 Cheez- $5.00 was alot of money back then! That would be an incentive to go hunting?


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## Bigdrowdy1

Just made something great better. Dad always got the money but I got to go hunting alot more.


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## coyotekidd

The rancher doesn't put the carcass on the roadside fence because the cattle are towards the backside of the ranch and he needs open gates because of the deer and elk population he takes care of 'cuz a bull elk tag will bring in $2,000 a pop


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## bar-d

Ain't no elk on my land. Too bad too, I could use a $2,000 pop or two or three!


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## youngdon

ebbs said:


> Thanks for the info Ed. Definitely sheds new light on the earlier discussion. I suppose the ethical side of it comes down to whether or not you're doing your job, or just trying to show off?


 Well said ebbs.


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## coyotekidd

bar'd, you should see the sheds my buddy finds on his ranch. 6x, 7x,8x. He has a set in his garage that has 12 on one side and 10 on the other (with 2 being broken). Awesome sight. A lot of ranchers down here count on that tag money for income and return business.


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## bar-d

I'd love to see some pics if you are able to get some. Any time a rancher can make some side money, more power to him. It is awful tough to make any money just farming and ranching anymore.


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## coyotekidd

bar-d, you got that right. My buddy works his a$$ off on that ranch. Traveling to auction, deworming, branding, feeding, vet, etc.. He's in Midland Texas right now training some horses so I haven't been able to get down there but I'll take some pics next time.


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## bar-d

It is a never ending, seldom paying job.


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## ebbs

Yeah, but those guns, er, I mean "predator removal tool" should be tax deductible, right?


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## El Gato Loco

ebbs said:


> Yeah, but those guns, er, I mean "predator removal tool" should be tax deductible, right?


They absolutely are. Just another tool a rancher needs to maintain.


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## bar-d

They dang sure ought to be, ammo too.


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## youngdon

I agree with Chris a rifle would be a needed tool if you are losing stock to predators. I assume that you can deduct a loss on each calf you loose a rifle would help stop those losses, and aid in maintaining the over all health and well being of your herd.


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## bar-d

youngdon said:


> I agree with Chris a rifle would be a needed tool if you are losing stock to predators. I assume that you can deduct a loss on each calf you loose a rifle would help stop those losses, and aid in maintaining the over all health and well being of your herd.


A calf born on the ranch that dies or is killed by coyotes is not a deductable loss because according to the IRS, you have no expense in that calf. The same thing goes if it is a cow you have raised from a calf. If i bought the cow or calf and loose them, then my original investment is deductible. Go figure.


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## youngdon

I hate the freekin IRS. I know you're right but it does not seem fair.


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## ebbs

youngdon said:


> I hate the freekin IRS. I know you're right but it does not seem fair.


Guess they figure if you haven't put any MONEY into it then it doesn't count as an investment. Regardless of how much TIME and LABOR is put into that investment.


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## bar-d

ebbs said:


> Guess they figure if you haven't put any MONEY into it then it doesn't count as an investment. Regardless of how much TIME and LABOR is put into that investment.


Yeah, I can't deduct it as a loss but if it lives and I sell it, I sure have to pay income tax on it.


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## El Gato Loco

ebbs said:


> Guess they figure if you haven't put any MONEY into it then it doesn't count as an investment. Regardless of how much TIME and LABOR is put into that investment.


That's where it becomes questionable, and also where people give into the IRS. The fact is, your TIME is worth something and you CAN deduct it all. Too many people are afraid of the IRS.

I have been audited 3 times in the last 3 years and have ended up with a check every time.

Everyone should understand their rights. The IRS LOVES those who don't.


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## ebbs

> I have been audited 3 times in the last 3 years and have ended up with a check every time.


Sounds like you just found a new tax consultant, Danny!


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## bar-d

I could sure use it. When I loose livestock or equipment breaks down, people tell me "well at least you can write it off." I tell them I have enough write offs, I need some write ons.


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## El Gato Loco

bar-d said:


> I could sure use it. When I loose livestock or equipment breaks down, people tell me "well at least you can write it off." I tell them I have enough write offs, I need some write ons.


LOL! Sorry... this is a very serious subject but I just died laughing. We all need some "write ons". Unfortunately, they are rare.


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## youngdon

Boy you got that right. My wife and I have had battles with the IRS for quite a few years in the past. Its funny how they never question anything in the year that you file it they always want to wait so that they can add on interest and penalties. I too have ended up with a check except for that one year where I truly forgot about a little something that came our way. As I explained to the IRS god "you have audited me for four years straight why would I try to cheat, it was a mistake, he said " sir we've only audited you for three years straight" I said sorry " it just feels like four"

I'm sorry was this not the beach about the IRS thread ? My bad.


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