# Patterning problems, Remmy 870



## LeadHead (Feb 11, 2012)

I have a Remington 870 Special Purpose camoflauge turkey gun with the factory 20" barrel including fiber optic sights. I cannot get this gun to pattern satisfactorily, 30 yards being about the maximum. I have tried the factory extended turkey choke tube, a Jelly Head and an Undertaker. For ammo I have tried both Remington 3" #4's and #5's, Winchester 3" #4's and #5's, some 2 3/4" duck magnum loads, etc... with no luck. Before purchasing chokes I read the reviews on the Jelly Head and Undertaker tubes and lots of guys are talking about decent-to-good patterns at 40-50+ yards, some even at 60. What in the world is wrong with my gun?


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## Scotty D. (Feb 23, 2012)

Might need to have the forcing cones lengthened.. My gunsmith does it for $25... Getting more expensive, back-boring & porting.. Forcing cone work should do the trick, though... :teeth:


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## LeadHead (Feb 11, 2012)

Wish I had some pics of the patterns that it slung at paper earlier this spring before turkey season. I know this isn't a turkey-hunting forum, but I also know that lots of you guys most likely use your turkey guns for CQC 'yote control.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

That is good advice from Scotty. I'd let a good qualified (one who knows shotguns) smith take a look at it. If you don't have one ask at a local trap and skeet club.


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## sneakygroundbuzzard (Nov 1, 2012)

have you shot steel thru the turkey choke?

most of them arent made for steel shot and can damage them,which will wreck the pattern.

if not then i to say to get the forcing cones lengthened,a true turkey gun should be back bored

the buck shot may not work well in a turkey choke either,i always remove my turkey choke ad use an extra full in my scatter gun for yotes

i know alot of turkey chokes have about the same restriction as yote chokes,but im not gonna risk wrecking my turkey choke on a yote


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## LeadHead (Feb 11, 2012)

No, I bought both aftermarket choke tubes brand new, and all they have seen so far are the loads that I mentioned above. Actual turkey loads, some were copper-plated and buffered. Even tried some duplex loads (4x6 IIRC, forgot to mention those). I don't waterfowl hunt, so to the best of my knowledge I have never used steel shot in any of my barrels. These chokes have never seen buck shot, either, nor anything larger than #4.


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## sneakygroundbuzzard (Nov 1, 2012)

is this a new gun?

it may just need to have more rounds put down the barrel to get broken in if its new


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## LeadHead (Feb 11, 2012)

I bought it on GunBroker 2 or 3 years ago and have not shot it a whole lot, using it primarily as a deer gun with a rifled barrel rather than a turkey/coyote gun with the smoothbore. I'm not sure how much it had been shot by the original owner, but it appeared to have minimal use. Call me a newb if you like, but I was unaware that a shotgun barrel needed "breaking in", although of course that is indeed an issue with rifle barrels.


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## Cheez (Dec 12, 2011)

I think I have the same gun as you LeadHead mines the 870 SPS super mag turkey/predator but I have a red dot on it.

I have been happy with mine so far I'v only had it for a year and a half though.

Here is it with the stock choke at 50 yards with dead coyote T shot


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## LeadHead (Feb 11, 2012)

Actually, mine is not a supermag and is 2001 vintage. Did you see your groups improve as you broke it in?


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## Cheez (Dec 12, 2011)

I have put less then 50 down the tube but havent noticed any change.


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## Weasel (Jun 18, 2012)

LeadHead, are you judging your patterns against what others tell you and post on forums? If so, chances are your patterns are just as good as the next guy's. Choke and ammo manufacturers make some pretty wild claims too.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

LOL ain't that the truth !


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## LeadHead (Feb 11, 2012)

Weasel, good question, but I don't think so. For instance, I saw an article recently on a turkey hunting web site (can't remember the name) and it commented about the fact that you can easily miss a turkey at say, 30 yards, because of how tight the pattern is (softball sized, it seems like they said). Mine would be closer to a double-beachball size, without what I would consider a core group of hits. Surely a person should expect better than that? It's almost as though I could aim a couple feet to the side of the turkey's head and still get as many pellets in the kill zone as there would be by aiming dead on. There doesn't seem to be much exaggeration in that statement, either. Don't get me wrong--we can't expect rifle-performance from a shotgun shell, but if every other guy gets the same patterns that my gun shoots, there are TONS of very unlucky turkeys every spring.

On a hunch, I even tried a standard full choke to see what would happen but with no improvement. I guess I'll have to shoot some patterns, scan them, and post the pictures here for you guys to see. Might be a few days until that's possible, though.


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## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Have you tried a looser restriction ?


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## LeadHead (Feb 11, 2012)

Well, like I mentioned I did try a standard full choke. Can't remember for sure on the modified. Improved cylinder, no, figured it would be completely pointless.


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## sneakygroundbuzzard (Nov 1, 2012)

i dont know what others think or have experienced with breaking in a shot gun barrel

but i for one know from my experiences that my 835 ulti mag and both of the 870's that i used to own

improved their patterns after they had been shot some

not sure if its the barrel that breaks in or the chokes,but their patterns did improve after about 100 rds had been put thru them

my 835 ulti mag,which is my turkey gun, doesnt like a clean barrel either.it shoots best after about ten rds have been thru a freshly cleaned barrel

like Don mentioned,try a looser restricted choke.not all shot guns like a tight choke

and not all will make a good turkey gun


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## Rich Cronk (Feb 24, 2010)

LeadHead said:


> I bought it on GunBroker 2 or 3 years ago and have not shot it a whole lot, using it primarily as a deer gun with a rifled barrel rather than a turkey/coyote gun with the smoothbore. I'm not sure how much it had been shot by the original owner, but it appeared to have minimal use. Call me a newb if you like, but I was unaware that a shotgun barrel needed "breaking in", although of course that is indeed an issue with rifle barrels.


Are you patterning your gun with the rifled barrel?


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## LeadHead (Feb 11, 2012)

No, it's the factory smoothbore turkey barrel.


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## Rich Cronk (Feb 24, 2010)

LeadHead said:


> No, it's the factory smoothbore turkey barrel.


OK, are you using some type of rest to be sure that you are on target when the gun fires? Are you using a large enough paper or cardboard back stop so that you can see exactly where your pattern is striking? An ordinary paper plate with a circle drawn in the middle can be stapled to your pattern board for a target. I ask these questions because the 870's that I have met were good shooters. I have also learned that at 30 yards, even a more open choke shoots good dense patterns.


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## sneakygroundbuzzard (Nov 1, 2012)

yup same here,never met an 870 that didnt shoot well

thats why they have the reputation that they do,and are the most copied shotgun design out there

is there any visible damage to the barrel at all,inside or out side?

any pitting inside etc.?


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## LeadHead (Feb 11, 2012)

Yes, using a rest, and have used paper as large as an opened newspaper (we have a remnant roll of blank newspaper that comes in handy for this). 
I am an 870 fan, having used my Wingmaster for many years to take many deer with a rifled barrel before buying this one to use as my primary deer gun (Wingmasters are almost too pretty for the deer woods). I have taken them as far as 140-150 yards with an iron-sighted barrel so I know how they should shoot.


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## LeadHead (Feb 11, 2012)

No, Sneaky, the bore is nice and shiny. It's only a 20" short barrel, but there are many 20" barrels out there that perform fine for other folks. I really need to sling some pellets and take some pics to show you guys. Maybe I have unrealistic expectations, but....


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## Weasel (Jun 18, 2012)

I have always had the most consistent (best) patterns from open, wad stripper choke tubes. I have a couple of wad stripper choke tubes, but a Patternmaster has been the most consistent overall.


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## Rich Cronk (Feb 24, 2010)

Weasel said:


> I have always had the most consistent (best) patterns from open, wad stripper choke tubes. I have a couple of wad stripper choke tubes, but a Patternmaster has been the most consistent overall.


Wad Wizard works OK also, but nothing to write home about. :hunter:


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## LeadHead (Feb 11, 2012)

Ok, here are some patterns from tonight. Each picture includes a standard 12" ruler for reference. I have to admit that the patterns look denser than when I was shooting at an actual turkey silhouette target this spring when it appeared I was getting mighty few pellets in the kill zone. Even so, I would have thought the patterns would be denser than this. Also, although of course there is a mixture of loads/chokes shown here, the patterns vary greatly.

After the 2nd or 3rd shot I adjusted my sight because it was definitely shooting left. I only had a few 3" shells left so I was limited to how many samples I could provide.

Am I expecting too much?


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## sneakygroundbuzzard (Nov 1, 2012)

use the jelly head with the load in the top right pic

its seems to be pattering nicely

thats what i use in my 20 ga, and it out shoots my 835 ulti mag with the factory choke by a good 15 yds

i bought that gun for the wife to use,but i use it when she dont come with turkey hunting

just because the jelly head shoots so well in it


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## LeadHead (Feb 11, 2012)

So, what about these statements that I read such as "aim carefully because it's easy to miss a turkey with the softball-sized pattern of shot"? In my case the turkey would have to be sitting in my lap staring down the end of the barrel. I was expecting a bit tighter of a pattern at 30 yards, especially when guys are supposedly "blowing turkeys' heads half off at 50+ yards" with these same chokes. Sure, I've heard of hunters exaggerating, but....


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## 4Cody4 (Dec 24, 2012)

The things you just listed are exaggerations. Nobody is blowing a turkeys head off at 50 yards even with the tightest choke out there. Inside 10 yards there may be a chance a pattern is very tight, but to shoot "softballs" the target would have to be pretty close.

That jellyhead tube seems to be patterning pretty well for you. That 40 yard pattern would be acceptable to me as I think that is dense enough for a clean kill, and I'd be hesitant to shoot a turkey at 50 yards.


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## olsonfia (Mar 12, 2013)

This might not answer your choke or gun question. But, to get a better idea of how much shot your gettin in the kill zone, try tracing that ruler out on your target paper and draw a turkey head at the top. Aim with the turkey head at the top of your bead, then count how much shot is in that area. Kind of a makeshift way of seeing what loads and chokes will put the most lead in the killzone but hey whatever works! And cheaper than buyin targets for sure. I shoot an 11-87 that does pretty well. All of our 870's shoot good too. Couldn't tell ya what choke I have off hand I haven't hunted turkey with a scattergun for years I stick with my bow.


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## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Looks fine to me. I don't see an issue other than putting the pattern on the aiming point.

Shooting those magnum loads requires pulling the stock very tight against your shoulder with a firm grip on the forearm. Under recoil, the relatively slow-moving pellets take time to exit the muzzle. During that time, you want to hang on tight enough to minimize barrel movement; otherwise, the barrel will move excessively causing irregular patterns. If you are shooing ducks, however, a moving barrel is required but your pattern's shot string is the key - not some static target.

It's a difficult proposition to be consistent when you are getting pounded and the trigger is poor - compared to what we typically use with rifles.


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## sneakygroundbuzzard (Nov 1, 2012)

30-35 yrs is plenty for ground buzzards
Just put your decoys at the distance you want to kill them.


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## Rich Cronk (Feb 24, 2010)

LeadHead said:


> So, what about these statements that I read such as "aim carefully because it's easy to miss a turkey with the softball-sized pattern of shot"? In my case the turkey would have to be sitting in my lap staring down the end of the barrel. I was expecting a bit tighter of a pattern at 30 yards, especially when guys are supposedly "blowing turkeys' heads half off at 50+ yards" with these same chokes. Sure, I've heard of hunters exaggerating, but....


The claims you mention are exactly what I was talking about in an earlier post. Some hunters simply don't have the ability to tell the truth. Your patterns with the turkey loads are looking good. Trade your #4 birdshot for some buffered #4 BUCK and you probably have a decent coyote whacker there. :teeth:


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## Rick Howard (Feb 25, 2012)

Is that the secret SGB..... I'm going to hold one in my lap next year..... Maybe I can strangle the turkey.... Phfffe on self bow..... I use my hands!


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## LeadHead (Feb 11, 2012)

Thanks, guys. To be perfectly honest, that top right target seems to look a lot better than the patterns looked back in the spring, but I'll need to shoot more to be sure.

Olsonfia, when I was attempting to pattern it before, I printed out some turkey targets (just Google "free turkey targets" and you'll find all you want). While using them, it seems like I kept getting approximately 5-9 pellets in the kill zone, but sparsely located. That's why it had me so concerned. Sure do wish I could find THOSE targets but I think I finally tossed them a couple weeks ago when cleaning out some stuff (story of my life).


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