# Upgraded the ol' Shotgun



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

Well after a few issues with my old Steven's 12 gauge side-by-side this year I had some fun funds and decided to upgrade to a more proper hunting rig. Couldn't pass up an amazing sale on this Mossberg 500 Flex "Turkey" model. 24" ported barrel, extended full choke, fiber optic sights, and an adjustable trigger. Can't wait to get out and shoot it!










- Mark

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Good going, Mark! Those 500s have proven themselves for many years. Users for sure. Now, don't forget to step up the ammo, too. That thing will handle it.

I did some slug testing for Lightfield with a rifled-barrel model 500 and it was impressive.


----------



## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

I hope this new shotgun brings you fur as it looks like a very nice gun.


----------



## Tuffdaddy (Oct 26, 2012)

Nice looking boom stick. If it shoots anything like my 930 with the factory turkey choke, you'll be dropping them left and right!


----------



## hassell (Feb 9, 2010)

Congrats. on the new addition.


----------



## prairiewolf (Feb 19, 2012)

Great looking Shotgun Mark !! and Congrats !!


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

Thanks guys it should be a huge advantage over the 2 shot gun I used up until now. I'm sure that side-by-side will still make a trip or two here and there though, I still love the classic double barrel. I can't say I will miss the weight and limited shots though!

I'll follow up in a few days here with my patterning of the new Mossy. Picking up a modified choke for the slugs & 00 Buck to see how they pattern. I bought various 4 buck ammo and some 3" slugs as well....can't wait to feel the kick of those suckers! Haha. I'm just glad to not be limited to 2 3/4" shells now...much more variety of ammo to try with the 3".

One frustration is the gun didn't come with a front sling swivel, but I'll have one in the mail this week to solve that!

- Mark

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

Nice buy !


----------



## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Mark,

Here's some Larry thoughts since you are patterning.

Try some waterfowl steel BBB when you pattern and I think you might like them. For one the pattern is better. This is because their is no pellet deformation after the explosion in the barrel. Thus you have a very good pattern with few flyers. Advanced methods of steel shot buffering adds to the great patterns.

Now I don't know what choke you have. But anything less than full will works well.

The speed of BBB is exceptional to past 50 yards. It starts out of the barrel at 1450 fps for Federal Black Gold. That's around 200 FPS faster then most .22 standard velocity longs. Imagine shooting 80 .18 cal rifles at a coyote and exceeding the velocity by 200 FPS. BTW a BBB pellet is just 0.06 smaller diameter at 0.18.

I have great results shooting BBB steel on yotes in our wooded areas. These pellets are hard and they don't flatten when they strike fur. That means more energy left in the pellet to break bones and penetrate.

On fox they don't tear them up much at all. Usually passing right through.

I will say this, don't expect steel to roll the canine over after a hit. I have always said steel shot is similar like a bow hunters broad head. (stretch but good example) It doesn't cause as much Hydrostatic shock as there is less transfer of energy (ergs) from the deformation of the lead when it enters a bodies superficial layers like fur and skin. Instead it causes organ failure through actual physical damage it. IMHO.

Larry


----------



## sneakygroundbuzzard (Nov 1, 2012)

nice scatter gun,congrats

cant wait to see the field report on it

ive been thinking about replacing my old 835 ulti mag turkey with the new model 835 ulti mag turkey gun

and giving the old one to my son since he got his first turkey last year with it


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

Thanks for the tip Larry! I bought some Federal Premium copper plated #4 buck and a few other loads to try out. I'll check out those steel BBB loads on my next ammo buy, or sooner if I don't like the pattern of my current loads. From what I've read the copper plated rounds don't deform as bad and have a deadly punch. We'll see...

Going on a 2 day hunt this weekend so I'm hoping to have some field use to report with this gun.

- Mark

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Just a reminder that for the best of both worlds of *energy and downrange patterns* in copper-plated lead shot, the new Winchester Varmint X loads in BB are superb and much lower cost than others. The ammo uses the same technology as the Winchester Longbeard XR shells but with the larger pellets. All I can say is impressive!

Here's a link: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1017367255/winchester-varmint-x-ammunition-12-gauge-3-1-1-2-oz-bb


----------



## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

Nice shotgun Mark... What size shot have you been using? #4 buck I imagine...are you going to try some dead coyote loads in that bad boy.
Copper plated lead BB's like Glenn's post might even be better than the dead coyote... at least on the wallet.


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

I've only ever used #4 buckshot in my past shotgunning. I won't be trying the high end ammo such as heavishot coyote, etc as I just can't pay that much for shotgun rounds. Lol.

I will definitely have to check out the copper plated BB's that Glenway showed me! For now though I'm just excited to have 41 pellets of #4 buck instead of 27. That alone will improve my shotgun killing.

- Mark

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Mo Mo (Sep 16, 2016)

Nice looking shotgun, Mark.


----------



## SWAMPBUCK10PT (Apr 5, 2010)

*Grats on the New Shotgun-------*


----------



## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

Mark Steinmann said:


> I've only ever used #4 buckshot in my past shotgunning. I won't be trying the high end ammo such as heavishot coyote, etc as I just can't pay that much for shotgun rounds. Lol.
> I will definitely have to check out the copper plated BB's that Glenway showed me! For now though I'm just excited to have 41 pellets of #4 buck instead of 27. That alone will improve my shotgun killing.
> - Mark
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


 I hear you.... That is a lot more pellets


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

Well I got it patterned with the extended full turkey choke. 4 types of 4 buck shot at 40 yards. The top two then were shot at 60 yards. Results were pretty crazy as the best two are the cheapest and most expensive rounds.

40 yards:

































60 yards:

















Any thoughts?!

- Mark

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Mark,

Get a box of the Winchester Varmint X. If you can't do better with them, I'll eat the target.


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

glenway said:


> Mark,
> 
> Get a box of the Winchester Varmint X. If you can't do better with them, I'll eat the target.


Will do!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## prairiewolf (Feb 19, 2012)

Mark, might sound crazy, did it come with regular mod and full chokes. If so try them.


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

prairiewolf said:


> Mark, might sound crazy, did it come with regular mod and full chokes. If so try them.


It only came with the turkey choke but I'm planning on getting a mod to try and then go from there.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

If you get the Varmint X shells, go with the turkey choke and you'll probably save some ammo and shoulder.


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

glenway said:


> If you get the Varmint X shells, go with the turkey choke and you'll probably save some ammo and shoulder.


Will do. I'm hoping to get a good pattern out of the #4's as I still have about 75 rounds...

I picked these two up today to pattern the #4 buck with and test out the rifled slugs on the mod choke. 







The cool thing with these is I can shoot steel shot as well.

Getting an off season Coyote with a 1oz slug is at the top of my list!

- Mark

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## prairiewolf (Feb 19, 2012)

Mark, when using steel shot, make sure to check on restrictions for the size of pellets. Most have such restrictions and I think they say no larger than #2 unless using mod choke. But some are different.


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

prairiewolf said:


> Mark, when using steel shot, make sure to check on restrictions for the size of pellets. Most have such restrictions and I think they say no larger than #2 unless using mod choke. But some are different.


Thanks for the tip Ed!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

Figure I should update this thread...

I patterned my gun with 2 shot steel duck loads and liked it enough to chamber it since I was going after Fox & Bobcat. It performed well at 25 yards on a Mt. Lion so I guess it's a winner!

Patterned at 20 yards...
















Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## prairiewolf (Feb 19, 2012)

What choke Mark ? That rock outcropping behind you looks familiar, lol

I'm a little jealous, I have called in 2 lions but not that close and I didnt connect either, Congrats again !!


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

prairiewolf said:


> What choke Mark ? That rock outcropping behind you looks familiar, lol
> I'm a little jealous, I have called in 2 lions but not that close and I didnt connect either, Congrats again !!


Oh That's with the regular full choke. Thanks Ed, I knew there was a high lion population there but never expected to get 1 in on a 15 minute Fox stand!

Message me where you think that is at & I'll let you know if you are hot or cold! ????

- Mark

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## kiyote (Jun 15, 2014)

Mark Steinmann said:


> Figure I should update this thread...
> 
> I patterned my gun with 2 shot steel duck loads and liked it enough to chamber it since I was going after Fox & Bobcat. It performed well at 25 yards on a Mt. Lion so I guess it's a winner!
> 
> ...


sweet! congrats on the puddy tat!


----------



## TACC (Jan 23, 2017)

Why not use Carlson choke tubes?

Sent from my SM-G900T3 using Tapatalk


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

glenway said:


> If you get the Varmint X shells, go with the turkey choke and you'll probably save some ammo and shoulder.


Well Glen was awesome and sent me a couple shells of the Varmint X shells to pattern. Let's just say I was very impressed and they patterned twice as good as any other round I've tried. Patterned with the Full Turkey Choke that came with my Mossberg 500 at 40 & 60 yards. I highlighted each hit as I used the front and back of the cardboard for each shot.

Here are the results:

- Mark
















Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## azpredatorhunter (Jul 24, 2012)

Damn... Are they copper plated lead?


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

azpredatorhunter said:


> Damn... Are they copper plated lead?


Yep copper plated lead BB. Best pattern by far.... time to go order a few boxes... lol.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Like I said, I'd eat the targets, if they weren't better than other patterns you showed us. Beauty of them is they're much less cost than other good stuff, not as much shot, so not as much recoil. I love technology.

Same concept used in the Winchester Longbeard XR turkey shells. And, just as impressive.


----------



## youngdon (Mar 10, 2010)

That's a great pattern. Are they centered around your aiming point ?


----------



## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

That's a good question but I didn't see one on the targets. Very important except that he only had two rounds for testing.

I'm sure he'll dial it in when he gets a fresh box now that he likes it. A good red dot would sure be nice.

This ammo technology is worth a look.

Devastating in turkey loads and now it's made for 20-gauge guns, too.

Extended range is no BS, but I wonder why we haven't seen heavier varmint shot loaded. Maybe it doesn't work well?

But, based on what Mark shot, 60 yards seems quite doable. Suspect energy past that.


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

youngdon said:


> That's a great pattern. Are they centered around your aiming point ?


I forgot to put a bullseye on the target so I aimed dead center. Very close, if not right on point.

- Mark

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

glenway said:


> That's a good question but I didn't see one on the targets. Very important except that he only had two rounds for testing.
> 
> I'm sure he'll dial it in when he gets a fresh box now that he likes it. A good red dot would sure be nice.
> 
> ...


I really expected the pattern to open up a lot more moving from 40 to 60 yards. A really well put together round! I can't wait to see the stopping power on a Coyote sub 40 yards!

- Mark

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

Make sure to pattern it up close, Mark, like 20 yards, or so. Easy to miss the mark when the pattern is so tight.


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

glenway said:


> Make sure to pattern it up close, Mark, like 20 yards, or so. Easy to miss the mark when the pattern is so tight.


True, will do. Thanks for all the help Glen!

- Mark

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

I find it odd that slugs out of my Mod choke are 4" high at 40 yards. 12" high at 100 yards.

Any thoughts?

- Mark

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Larry (Dec 2, 2010)

Mark.....I find it odd you could kill anything with a wimpy 12 gauge! Especially a mountain lion! :welcome2:

I read all of this and all I can say is Ho Hum well OK. When I come down so you can film real greatness in predator calling :hot: ,...........Ill bring the mighty Ithaca 10 mag and you can first hand see what a real shotgun can do. Till then you just keep playing with your pea shooter OK

:beerchug: Luv Yah Man...and all joking aside you are one helluva caller and shooter.....don't change a thing till it's broke!


----------



## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

A slug shouldn't be that high at 40 yards unless you're trying to hit something a couple hundred yards away. Usually, 2 inches high at 50 yards will get the job done at 100. Of course, it all depends on velocity and aerodynamics of the slug (coefficient).

If you want to be dead on at 100, sight it in at that range. After that, set up targets closer to see where the slug hits.


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

Larry said:


> Mark.....I find it odd you could kill anything with a wimpy 12 gauge! Especially a mountain lion! :welcome2:
> 
> I read all of this and all I can say is Ho Hum well OK. When I come down so you can film real greatness in predator calling :hot: ,...........Ill bring the mighty Ithaca 10 mag and you can first hand see what a real shotgun can do. Till then you just keep playing with your pea shooter OK
> 
> :beerchug: Luv Yah Man...and all joking aside you are one helluva caller and shooter.....don't change a thing till it's broke!


Haha, very nice Larry. ???? I would love to see a 10 gauge take down a Coyote! Haha. Thank you.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

glenway said:


> A slug shouldn't be that high at 40 yards unless you're trying to hit something a couple hundred yards away. Usually, 2 inches high at 50 yards will get the job done at 100. Of course, it all depends on velocity and aerodynamics of the slug (coefficient).
> 
> If you want to be dead on at 100, sight it in at that range. After that, set up targets closer to see where the slug hits.


If I adjust my sights for the slug then my buckshot & BB will be off. Maybe I need to try a different slug or choke?! I first shot it at 40 yards with the 1oz 3" rifled slug and found out to be 4" high. I took out out to 100 thinking out might be on at that range and it was hitting about a foot high. Doesn't make any sense that it would still be that high at 100...

I have a goal to get a Coyote with a slug so I'd like to figure it out. Is there a way that I can have a slug & my normal BB load sighted in correctly at the same time or will I have to adjust my sights for each?

- Mark

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

It *does* make sense, Mark.

A Remington Premier AccuTip Bonded Sabot slug 385-grain at 1900 fps shot 2.5 inches high at 50 yards strikes the 100-yard target 3.4 inches high. I realize this is not the slug you were testing, but it shows how the trajectory works. Now, if you were to back the close target up to 40 yards, as you did, that slug will hit much higher at 100 yards, because you've increased the upward angle of the barrel so much more. On top of that, 4 inches high at 40 yards is much higher than 2.7 inches high at 50 yards.

Several issues: A smooth bore with only a rifled choke tube cannot effectively stabilize sabots, so you are relegated to shooting huge lead slugs, which are typically slower than sabots - and, less accurate than sabots fired from fully rifled barrels.

If you really want to take an animal with a slug, it would be best to set the gun up specifically for it. Also, your Mossberg can be fitted with a rifled barrel (if you don't already have one) and then you could use saboted ammo. I would also mount some type of scope on the rifled barrel for accuracy purposes. That way, you could switch barrels for other uses.

What all this means is that your current setup does not make a good tool for the various scenarios you present.


----------



## Mark Steinmann (Jan 28, 2014)

glenway said:


> It *does* make sense, Mark.
> 
> A Remington Premier AccuTip Bonded Sabot slug 385-grain at 1900 fps shot 2.5 inches high at 50 yards strikes the 100-yard target 3.4 inches high. I realize this is not the slug you were testing, but it shows how the trajectory works. Now, if you were to back the close target up to 40 yards, as you did, that slug will hit much higher at 100 yards, because you've increased the upward angle of the barrel so much more. On top of that, 4 inches high at 40 yards is much higher than 2.7 inches high at 50 yards.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the explanation Glen, I'm very new to shotgunning altogether. Looks like I'll be waiting a while to try to get a kill with a slug....have a lion mount to pay for! Haha.

Maybe I'll just have to get a coyote real close and hit him with the slug at an arms reach.....sounds like a fun challenge! Although I'd rather not be covered in coyote bits....????

- Mark

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## glenway (Mar 27, 2011)

I've taken a number of coyotes with my slug gun. Targets of opportunity during deer season. No big deal. But, I use a fully rifled and scoped slug gun. Very accurate with high-speed saboted tipped Barnes.


----------

